Zimmerman Found Not Guilty

[KenFSU]

Most people who commit crimes are guilty of not using good judgement. I had to bite my lip on that quote.  Zimmerman's attorneys did a great job, considering they've convinced the jury that he's the victim instead of the kid who died as a result of him not using "good judgment".

Had Travon simply gone home, or called the cops, rather than confronting Zimmerman, nobody would have died.

You can't seriously be suggesting that the onus of guilt falls on the threatened kid just going about his business, rather than the armed adult who blindly assumed his behavior criminal and pursued him through the neighborhood?

Whether or not Zimmerman started the actual physical confrontation, he was 100% the instigator in this situation. An adult stalking a child through the neighborhood is a threatening gesture, and one that we've all been warned about since kindergarten. It's a gesture that Martin had every right to defend themselves against, even physically, regardless of the sissified "run home and tell Mommy!" society you'd like us all to live in.

It's just absolute crap that people are so willing to give the benefit of the doubt to and sympathize with an armed neighborhood loon known to call the police about 4' foot tall, 7-year old black kids walking the neighborhood, rather than giving the benefit of the doubt to the dead kid in the street who's only crime was walking home while black.

When an unarmed kid gets shot dead in the street by a gun-toting adult with a vigilante history, you have to blame the adult.

In 50 cases out of 50.

I can completely understand the argument that the state didn't do a good enough job presenting its case, but it just turns my stomach to hear "Poor Zimmerman" crap like this. He's not a victim of circumstance. He murdered a minor in cold blood that he chose, against instruction, to engage. Trayvon Martin isn't dead because he chose not to run home and call the police or tell Mommy, he is dead because a low-life Dog the Bounty Hunter wanna be  decided to take the law into his own hands.

Just unbelievable to me that it could be viewed any other way.

[sheclown]

[KenFSU]

(Just unbelievable to me that it could be viewed any other way.) It was by the jury they found George Zimmerman Not Guilty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As I clearly stated, I can understand the argument for why there wasn't a conviction, but I cannot understand the "Zimmerman as the victim" narrative.

[sheclown]

I know someone mentioned Emmett Till, but the case that this more eerily resembles is the Rudolph Hargett murder that took place in Jacksonville the night after the MLK assassination.

The more things change...



A year later:

+1

[JayBird]

Ken I don't believe anyone thinks Zimmerman is not at fault.  It is just that fault lies in both parties. You can no more say Zimmerman instigated it than one can say Trayvon shouldn't have confronted. That's the point, had either one made an alternate choice the outcome would've been different.

Thankfully, as noted today, we are beginning to move from drawing lines in the sand and being defensive and starting to meet in the middle to assess and evaluate the situation. Hopefully, this will spur conversation to make less Trayvons and Zimmermans in the future.

Of course, by posting articles like that, we are making it a race issue. Which Martin/Zimmerman wasn't in the eyes of the jury that made the decision.  So as long as we continue to base all opinions on race, we will never progress forward.  And that is our own faults. Either pushing it or allowing it to be pushed.

[Apache]

Most people who commit crimes are guilty of not using good judgement. I had to bite my lip on that quote.  Zimmerman's attorneys did a great job, considering they've convinced the jury that he's the victim instead of the kid who died as a result of him not using "good judgment".

Isn't that really the crux of it? Had Travon simply gone home, or called the cops, rather than confronting Zimmerman, nobody would have died. There is no indication that Zimmerman was itching to kill, and seemingly was doing what so many other people across the country do in patrolling his neighborhood. Was he perhaps a bit too agressive? Arguably, perhaps, but the truth appears that he did not confront Travon martin. He followed him. He called the non-emergency number, he gave an accurate description, and only when he was physically confronted did bad shit happen.

The lesson for us to teach our children is, if you feel like a creep is following you, remove yourself from the situation, and call the police. If you dont trust the police, then go somewhere you feel safe, and lock the door.

I am not justifying anything by saying this. Its sad that Travon is dead, and its also sad that Zimmerman, a guy who thought he was being a good neighbor has now been vilified, and will forever have blood on his hands.

I think the crux of the situation is... some people feel Zimmerman should be able to defend himself against what turned out not to be a burglar, while they feel Martin should have run away and left the possibly dangerous situation...on the other hand some people feel Martin should have been able to defend himself from a stranger following him and that Zimmerman should have gone home to avoid a potentially dangerous situation.

[Cheshire Cat]

It seems two of the forum threads have started a cross over conversation.  I am going to put up a post that was shared on the Profiling thread here because it also speaks to this issue.  Ron Mexico, reply 21.  http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,18960.msg336961/topicseen.html#new

The conversation is continuing on the Profiling thread right now.

[sheclown]

Ken I don't believe anyone thinks Zimmerman is not at fault.  It is just that fault lies in both parties. You can no more say Zimmerman instigated it than one can say Trayvon shouldn't have confronted. That's the point, had either one made an alternate choice the outcome would've been different.

Thankfully, as noted today, we are beginning to move from drawing lines in the sand and being defensive and starting to meet in the middle to assess and evaluate the situation. Hopefully, this will spur conversation to make less Trayvons and Zimmermans in the future.

Of course, by posting articles like that, we are making it a race issue. Which Martin/Zimmerman wasn't in the eyes of the jury that made the decision.  So as long as we continue to base all opinions on race, we will never progress forward.  And that is our own faults. Either pushing it or allowing it to be pushed.

If both men had been black? 

If Martin had been white and Zimmerman black?

Does anyone SERIOUSLY think the outcome would have been the same?

[4thlittle]

You can't seriously be suggesting that the onus of guilt falls on the threatened kid just going about his business, rather than the armed adult who blindly assumed his behavior criminal and pursued him through the neighborhood?

Whether or not Zimmerman started the actual physical confrontation, he was 100% the instigator in this situation. An adult stalking a child through the neighborhood is a threatening gesture, and one that we've all been warned about since kindergarten. It's a gesture that Martin had every right to defend themselves against, even physically, regardless of the sissified "run home and tell Mommy!" society you'd like us all to live in.

It's just absolute crap that people are so willing to give the benefit of the doubt to and sympathize with an armed neighborhood loon known to call the police about 4' foot tall, 7-year old black kids walking the neighborhood, rather than giving the benefit of the doubt to the dead kid in the street who's only crime was walking home while black.

When an unarmed kid gets shot dead in the street by a gun-toting adult with a vigilante history, you have to blame the adult.

In 50 cases out of 50.

I can completely understand the argument that the state didn't do a good enough job presenting its case, but it just turns my stomach to hear "Poor Zimmerman" crap like this. He's not a victim of circumstance. He murdered a minor in cold blood that he chose, against instruction, to engage. Trayvon Martin isn't dead because he chose not to run home and call the police or tell Mommy, he is dead because a low-life Dog the Bounty Hunter wanna be  decided to take the law into his own hands.

Just unbelievable to me that it could be viewed any other way.

KenFSU: 

You refer to TM as a child but then claim that he need not be "sissified" by calling the police or telling Mommy.  So, GZ made a mistake following TM on foot.  Is it seriously your contention that TM had "every right" to escalate the situation by punching and then beating up GZ?  If your son were faced with a range of choices in that situation, would you encourage him to do the same as TM so he wouldn't take the "sissified" course of action?

[JayBird]

Yes SheClown I do, because race wasn't a factor. Race does not determine thought process, as a matter of fact the genes that determine race have no impact whatsoever on the development of your brain. An Asian kid raised in an environment of extreme poverty will have the same mentality as those around him. Instead of being the stereotypical math/science genius.

Where do you feel race was a factor here? You believe had it been a white 'skater' kid Zimmerman wouldn't have followed? If you are using that basis, than actually it is more probable that he would follow a black person the least, as they are stereotypically more confrontational and aggressive. There are too many holes in the race card, idk why you continue to play it.

[Jameson]

Ken I don't believe anyone thinks Zimmerman is not at fault.  It is just that fault lies in both parties. You can no more say Zimmerman instigated it than one can say Trayvon shouldn't have confronted. That's the point, had either one made an alternate choice the outcome would've been different.

Thankfully, as noted today, we are beginning to move from drawing lines in the sand and being defensive and starting to meet in the middle to assess and evaluate the situation. Hopefully, this will spur conversation to make less Trayvons and Zimmermans in the future.

Of course, by posting articles like that, we are making it a race issue. Which Martin/Zimmerman wasn't in the eyes of the jury that made the decision.  So as long as we continue to base all opinions on race, we will never progress forward.  And that is our own faults. Either pushing it or allowing it to be pushed.

If both men had been black? 

If Martin had been white and Zimmerman black?

Does anyone SERIOUSLY think the outcome would have been the same?

(If both men had been black?) If this would have been the case the MEDIA wouldn't have covered the trial!

I agree. If Zimmerman and Martin were the same race, we would have never heard about the case. The media created and spun the racial narrative to fit their agenda since day one.

[JeffreyS]

Wasn't it a few organized protests that brought the attention to this case?

[KenFSU]

Ken I don't believe anyone thinks Zimmerman is not at fault.  It is just that fault lies in both parties. You can no more say Zimmerman instigated it than one can say Trayvon shouldn't have confronted. That's the point, had either one made an alternate choice the outcome would've been different.

I guess this is where our opinions differ. To me, the term "instigate" has a very narrow definition. In my opinion, which is only that, Zimmerman initiated the event by following Martin. His pursuit of Martin, against advisement, can only be seen as Zimmerman going on the offensive. Whatever happened next was in direct response of Zimmerman's instigation, which is why I think he deserves the largest slice of whatever blame diagram people want to sketch out. He's also the one who pulled the trigger during a fist fight.

Of course, by posting articles like that, we are making it a race issue. Which Martin/Zimmerman wasn't in the eyes of the jury that made the decision.  So as long as we continue to base all opinions on race, we will never progress forward.  And that is our own faults. Either pushing it or allowing it to be pushed.

I posted the article because I found the similarities between the two cases striking. Profiling leads to murder leads to acquittal on self defense grounds. We have come a tremendous way, no doubt. I'm so white that I sunburn on my way to the mailbox, but in this particular case, I think it's impossible to divorce race from the circumstances. It's not even a black/white/hispanic/arab/asian thing, but rather a profiling thing. I don't think we live in this horribly racist country. In fact, things are as good as they've ever been. But it's hard to deny that both the mass media and the courts can still be guilty of putting less value on black suffering than that of whites. Again, things are getting better every year (Axe Handle Saturday wasn't even covered in the Times-Union in the 1960s), but were living in a fantasy land if we don't think that race was one of many components of this case.

[JayBird]

Ken I don't believe anyone thinks Zimmerman is not at fault.  It is just that fault lies in both parties. You can no more say Zimmerman instigated it than one can say Trayvon shouldn't have confronted. That's the point, had either one made an alternate choice the outcome would've been different.

Thankfully, as noted today, we are beginning to move from drawing lines in the sand and being defensive and starting to meet in the middle to assess and evaluate the situation. Hopefully, this will spur conversation to make less Trayvons and Zimmermans in the future.

Of course, by posting articles like that, we are making it a race issue. Which Martin/Zimmerman wasn't in the eyes of the jury that made the decision.  So as long as we continue to base all opinions on race, we will never progress forward.  And that is our own faults. Either pushing it or allowing it to be pushed.

If both men had been black? 

If Martin had been white and Zimmerman black?

Does anyone SERIOUSLY think the outcome would have been the same?

(If both men had been black?) If this would have been the case the MEDIA wouldn't have covered the trial!

I agree. If Zimmerman and Martin were the same race, we would have never heard about the case. The media created and spun the racial narrative to fit their agenda since day one.

100% agree as well, however thankfully the media is not our justice system and the people make the laws, not FOX or CNN.  We all know the news puts their spin on it, however I don't think anyone is looking to them for justice or change so they really don't matter other than to give us pieces of a puzzle. 

[JayBird]

Ken I don't believe anyone thinks Zimmerman is not at fault.  It is just that fault lies in both parties. You can no more say Zimmerman instigated it than one can say Trayvon shouldn't have confronted. That's the point, had either one made an alternate choice the outcome would've been different.

I guess this is where our opinions differ. To me, the term "instigate" has a very narrow definition. In my opinion, which is only that, Zimmerman initiated the event by following Martin. His pursuit of Martin, against advisement, can only be seen as Zimmerman going on the offensive. Whatever happened next was in direct response of Zimmerman's instigation, which is why I think he deserves the largest slice of whatever blame diagram people want to sketch out. He's also the one who pulled the trigger during a fist fight.

Of course, by posting articles like that, we are making it a race issue. Which Martin/Zimmerman wasn't in the eyes of the jury that made the decision.  So as long as we continue to base all opinions on race, we will never progress forward.  And that is our own faults. Either pushing it or allowing it to be pushed.

I posted the article because I found the similarities between the two cases striking. Profiling leads to murder leads to acquittal on self defense grounds. We have come a tremendous way, no doubt. I'm so white that I sunburn on my way to the mailbox, but in this particular case, I think it's impossible to divorce race from the circumstances. It's not even a black/white/hispanic/arab/asian thing, but rather a profiling thing. I don't think we live in this horribly racist country. In fact, things are as good as they've ever been. But it's hard to deny that both the mass media and the courts can still be guilty of putting less value on black suffering than that of whites. Again, things are getting better every year (Axe Handle Saturday wasn't even covered in the Times-Union in the 1960s), but were living in a fantasy land if we don't think that race was one of many components of this case.

I can understand your points and for the most part agree.  The only place I truly differ is that I feel race only plays in on whether or not Zimmerman followed/instigated/murdered purely because Martin was black. Any other way to view the race card is in the eyes of the beholder in my opinion.