Author Topic: Khan's Jacksonville Shipyards Plans Revealed  (Read 151546 times)

Beloki

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Re: Khan's Jacksonville Shipyards Plans Revealed
« Reply #120 on: February 18, 2015, 05:35:32 AM »
Altough I like the idea of bringing work, stay and play back into downtown.. it's missing something. It misses a iconic building/activitity/landmark. Something that puts Jax on the map or something that if you see it links you directly to Jax (Opera house, Statue of Liberty, Golden gate Bridge, Tower of London, Big Ben, Eiffel Tower, the space needle, etc etc )

camarocane

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Re: Khan's Jacksonville Shipyards Plans Revealed
« Reply #121 on: February 18, 2015, 07:44:46 AM »
I think you folks are getting too wrapped up in the landscaping. Yes palm trees provide less shade, but they have a deep root system. Just think of the maintainance after growing an oak tree close to a sidewalk? How about if it were to fall due to heavy winds? When they drop leaves, who will clean those up? Lots of cons to planting any shade tree in that area.

Pottsburg

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Re: Khan's Jacksonville Shipyards Plans Revealed
« Reply #122 on: February 18, 2015, 08:03:39 AM »
The engineer of the shipyards project is going to be on 1010xl at 8:30am

Noone

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Re: Khan's Jacksonville Shipyards Plans Revealed
« Reply #123 on: February 18, 2015, 08:21:43 AM »
OMG I cant even!! You guys are right! Lets just leave that 50 acres as a contaminated parking lot that is used as a giant restroom for our DT vagrants!!  Awesome plan Mr Kahn. Thank you for having the vision and the pockets to think differently than some of our esteemed citizens! I love this city so much and I always said if I had the money I would do great things for this city. Not so much any more because I know that whatever I proposed it would get  dissected, ridiculed, picked apart until a billion dollar project turns into another unrealized potential game breaker.....................sound familiar??

You don't frequent development boards, do you.  A *VERY* public/impactful project such as this needs to be publicly dissected.  This project is nothing less than a spectacle for Jax.  It's do or die.  This project would literally be up for public vote in San Francisco.  The public would vote yay or nay on whether they like it.  Someone might put something on the ballot in conjunction with a Yes/No that forces a new direction for the site, in terms of use, height, open space, % affordable housing, etc.

Jax doesn't really put its projects through a rigorous test like some cities do, and we know how we all feel about the DRC and other organizations, so it's up to more or less informed citizens to put out their opinions whenever the other team makes a play - in this case the development team made a big play with PR, video, renderings, PR to all the news sites.  Now it's up for the public to provide feedback.

And another thing - this isn't a single apartment building or suburban office building or hospital.  This is a game changing site.  Khan is a big boy and knows going in that he will expect vocal public feedback, opposing efforts, etc.  If he's smart, he'll welcome all the feedback he can get.  This will only be as successful as the market allows it to be, so it's got to play to that [small] market perfectly.

Part of the reason there are still successful and amazing developments going up in cities generally regarded as "world-class" here in America, and even other major cities such as Atlanta, is because there are smart firms that listen to the public, try to understand the public, and deliver what the public wants.  But on the flip side, in these cities you have a very entrenched public that is acutely aware of EVERYTHING going on in their city and/or their neighborhood.

Part of Jacksonville's long term problem is a disconnect between public/private, public citizenry/public officials, public officials/private businesses.  And a lot of people who just don't mind maintaining that status quo.

An absentee public citizenry in this process will not really help Khan, may result in something atrocious being built or misuse of tax dollars, etc.

There's my counter-argument to yours.

simms3 you nail it. The last thing that is happening in Jax is Public input. Can't wait for the unveiling of the long anticipated Southbank Riverwalk just weeks away. Does anyone else feel sorry for the Baltimore guys that got kicked out of Jax 2014-412? No River pass for you. What is the position of the St. Johns Riverkeeper on this project?

Noone

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Re: Khan's Jacksonville Shipyards Plans Revealed
« Reply #124 on: February 18, 2015, 08:34:15 AM »
The engineer of the shipyards project is going to be on 1010xl at 8:30am

Just tuned in. Appreciate the heads up.

thelakelander

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Re: Khan's Jacksonville Shipyards Plans Revealed
« Reply #125 on: February 18, 2015, 08:36:16 AM »
Tuned in as well...since my DT commute is stop and go today.

copperfiend

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Re: Khan's Jacksonville Shipyards Plans Revealed
« Reply #126 on: February 18, 2015, 08:40:31 AM »
This project sure looks flashy that much is true but something about it is uncomfortable to me.  It is so not Jacksonville or N.E. Florida.

You're right. It is so not Jacksonville. But is that a bad thing? You know what is so Jacksonville. The waterfront property that has been a vacant lot for 20 years.

mbwright

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Re: Khan's Jacksonville Shipyards Plans Revealed
« Reply #127 on: February 18, 2015, 08:45:33 AM »
If this is not a realistic project, why waste time and money putting together a presentation of something that would not be done.  We have lots of those already.  I would think it would be better to figure out up front what is feasible. 

tufsu1

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Re: Khan's Jacksonville Shipyards Plans Revealed
« Reply #128 on: February 18, 2015, 08:46:29 AM »
Tuned in as well...since my DT commute is stop and go today.

I-95 looks real nice today...at least going southbound ;)

I-10east

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Re: Khan's Jacksonville Shipyards Plans Revealed
« Reply #129 on: February 18, 2015, 08:51:27 AM »
The engineer of the shipyards project is going to be on 1010xl at 8:30am

The Populous architect on 1010 said something along the lines (paraphrasing) of you gotta add destinations before adding mass transit. I totally agree!!!
« Last Edit: February 18, 2015, 09:08:24 AM by I-10east »

Noone

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Re: Khan's Jacksonville Shipyards Plans Revealed
« Reply #130 on: February 18, 2015, 08:59:31 AM »
Nice to know that they put this together over the holidays. Makes me think back to the SCAD request for the students to partner and come up with their vision for the Shipyards.

blizz01

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Re: Khan's Jacksonville Shipyards Plans Revealed
« Reply #131 on: February 18, 2015, 09:02:32 AM »
I didn't hear that - What I heard was a dedicated team of 15 from Populous spending several months after being approached a few years back - did I miss something?

So easy to trivialize.

vicupstate

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Re: Khan's Jacksonville Shipyards Plans Revealed
« Reply #132 on: February 18, 2015, 09:18:06 AM »
I think there is plenty of reason for skepticism, but I will wait for the details expected next week before drawing any conclusions. One BIG fear I have is that the city will be so enthralled with this dream like project that more studied, and (IMO more do-able) projects like the Laura Trio/Barnett deal get pushed to the side. The city is strapped for money as it is, and what money that can be found will be need there as well.

JAX has a long history of looking for a silver bullet approach to revitalization, rather than going the tried and true route that other cities have done.       

copperfiend

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Re: Khan's Jacksonville Shipyards Plans Revealed
« Reply #133 on: February 18, 2015, 09:18:24 AM »
Nice to know that they put this together over the holidays. Makes me think back to the SCAD request for the students to partner and come up with their vision for the Shipyards.

Put together over the holidays?

PeeJayEss

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Re: Khan's Jacksonville Shipyards Plans Revealed
« Reply #134 on: February 18, 2015, 09:25:12 AM »
At the risk of sounding like a negative nancy, ugh, where to begin?!?

I don't think you are actually concerned with that.

3) I know just placeholders, but if these are to be just placeholders, I'd rather see conceptual massing alone, and NUMBERS, more of an official plan.  Not a Microsoft Paint render of some stuff thrown together.

6) WTF, a hot air balloon poorly rendered in Paint on one of the slides?  Really?

First off, what's with the Paint hate, man?
Second, if they did that presentation in Paint, the person that did it is Paint Rembrandt. A hot air balloon in Paint? C'mon!

history and aesthetics of Jacksonville.

Please elaborate

9) Is it just me or is one of the slides completely lifted from the design of the Miami Central Station with some additions of glass and a color scheme switcharoo?  Namely, the slide below the one where the Naval ship is precariously hanging on by a thread to the end of one of these piers.  Last slide on Pg 2

It's just you. Most people haven't looked at a design presentation for a project in Miami, nevermind compared the two for their similarity in slide design.

Populous is one of the largest architectural firms in the world, and they are responsible for some of the most iconic stadium designs of the last 50 years. Yankee Stadium. The O2 Arena. London's Olympic stadium. AT&T Park. Camden Yards. Our own baseball grounds, and the recent Everbank Field renovations. Their work has been featured at 31 consecutive Super Bowls, and numerous Olympics games.

These guys aren't using Microsoft Paint.

The new Yankee Stadium is atrocious. Otherwise, I get and agree with what you're saying. And AT&T and Camden Yards are amazing.

He must think Jax citizens are dumb (and in fact, he may be right in that).

No argument there.

Forgive me, I guess I HAVE been around billionaires

Guys! Guys! Simms knows billionaires!! oooo

The News4Jax article states the aquarium is still planned for "somewhere off Bay Street." Unless they plan on working it into these renders, it sounds like they're gonna boot it from the riverfront.
The aquarium isn't a real project. It's a heavily promoted dream that still needs millions in funding to get on the drawing board, secure property and actually be built. If it progresses to such a level, space can be found.

Seriously, everybody that keeps bringing up the aquarium needs to chill. That's even more pie-in-the-sky than this proposal, and that's saying something.


I've always heard palms are NOT native to Jax, which I've always believed, if you go out in the woods or drive through Osceola national forest you don't see any.

Can someone more knowledgeable comment on this?

We have palms, we just don't have only palms.

Otherwise, Simms, I generally agree with you, though a bit less cynically. Jacksonvillains on this board are generally way too gung-ho for unrealistic renderings and proposals. We are so hard up for some good development that we get over-enthusiastic for okay (or any) development proposed. And Khan certainly hasn't really done anything to earn this reverence he is afforded by Jaxsons and, in particular, Jags fans. It is certainly not altruism that has driven this proposal or any of the actions he has taken in Jacksonville that we might consider positive. He is the beneficiary of a pretty stacked industry that runs like an extra-governmental entity basically holds its host cities hostage (but, Rome is the mob). That said, he does seem like a decent guy and I believe, for the sake of his team, he would rather see Jacksonville, particularly downtown, thriving rather than wallowing. So, while I don't see this proposal happening, I can conceive of him getting something built that would be major for downtown. And if balloons are part of it, well then woohoo! Who doesn't like balloons? Though, I imagine we'll get more practice field and less office space/retail/residential than what is shown here.

Not a personal attack simms, just some insight for those who haven't been afforded the awesomeness of living vicariously through you and your stops at a couple of metros that are always better than the last in your climb up the corporate ladder.

I, sir, am enthralled.

Honestly, troll or no, NRW is funny.

Also, they should absolutely not be filling in more of the river. The river is the thing we have going for the area.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2015, 09:28:48 AM by PeeJayEss »