Khan's Jacksonville Shipyards Plans Revealed

[simms3]

^^^Ok.  Here's what we know of the vision:

Activate Bay St
Hotel
Office
Retail
Public space
Extend riverwalk and make it interesting
Tie development into surrounding context
Add indoor/rooftop football practice fields
Add potential to moor Naval vessel as museum

Render this purely conceptually.


Maybe some of us have seen this a few times already before.  The only major three differences between this proposal and the others are football fields, the look of the renderings, and space for Naval museum.  The Naval museum is not Khan's idea and has in fact been an idea punted around this website for many years, the lead being taken by another team looking for funding (perhaps from Khan?).  The football fields still feel weird, however, it makes sense given Khan and everything surrounding that.


I guess there are those of us who are tired of renderings with no substance.  I am not the only one here curious about who potential partners/funding sources are.  What's the ultimate mix of uses, and if there are options, what are they?  Timetable?  I know Khan doesn't own the land, but what he's pitching is not necessarily some crazy unique vision that hasn't been pitched before, and actually refined to a much greater extent twice before already.

So in a nutshell Khan's vision isn't all that different from anyone else's for the site.  Now let's talk implementation.  That's what I'm waiting for.  And what's the end goal?

Is Khan trying to get the land?  Listening to presentation, reading presentation it sounds like Khan pitched most of this to be developed by other groups.  So is he talking to anyone?  What's the deal?  If I were Khan, I'd want all of this to get done, but I might only want to be on the hook for football field end (where his yacht is also rendered to be docked).  Closest to stadium, and with a potential use tied into stadium/team already owned.

I'm used to seeing "visions" and these sort of presentations.  Generally they come with more specifics and more of a plan.  Announcements are made when parties are known and everyone can sync up their PR.

[Coolyfett]

Some perspective to his viewpoints is required.  While he does have some insight into the inner financial workings of development firms, he is also the same  person that was afraid to ride the MARTA just a few years ago.   

WAIT WHAT?? Simms afraid to ride Marta??

I think I see Simms point though. I like Khan, but something about this development doesnt feel right. Its sounds to me like Simms is saying Jacksonville people are too dumb to know whats going on. Ive often wondered this same question myself sometimes.

[iMarvin]

^^^Ok.  Here's what we know of the vision:

Activate Bay St
Hotel
Office
Retail
Public space
Extend riverwalk and make it interesting
Tie development into surrounding context
Add indoor/rooftop football practice fields
Add potential to moor Naval vessel as museum

Render this purely conceptually.


Maybe some of us have seen this a few times already before.  The only major three differences between this proposal and the others are football fields, the look of the renderings, and space for Naval museum.  The Naval museum is not Khan's idea and has in fact been an idea punted around this website for many years, the lead being taken by another team looking for funding (perhaps from Khan?).  The football fields still feel weird, however, it makes sense given Khan and everything surrounding that.


I guess there are those of us who are tired of renderings with no substance.  I am not the only one here curious about who potential partners/funding sources are.  What's the ultimate mix of uses, and if there are options, what are they?  Timetable?  I know Khan doesn't own the land, but what he's pitching is not necessarily some crazy unique vision that hasn't been pitched before, and actually refined to a much greater extent twice before already.

So in a nutshell Khan's vision isn't all that different from anyone else's for the site.  Now let's talk implementation.  That's what I'm waiting for.  And what's the end goal?

Is Khan trying to get the land?  Listening to presentation, reading presentation it sounds like Khan pitched most of this to be developed by other groups.  So is he talking to anyone?  What's the deal?  If I were Khan, I'd want all of this to get done, but I might only want to be on the hook for football field end (where his yacht is also rendered to be docked).  Closest to stadium, and with a potential use tied into stadium/team already owned.

I'm used to seeing "visions" and these sort of presentations.  Generally they come with more specifics and more of a plan.  Announcements are made when parties are known and everyone can sync up their PR.

That will all come Monday when they present it to the DIA/DDRB(?). I think this was just to get people excited.

[mikew]

I believe this Shipyards plan will actually be carried out. Why? Because as another poster alluded to earlier, the fate of the Jags in Jacksonville is tied to its success.

Unlike the other potential Shipyards investors, Khan already has a billion dollars invested in this town--the Jags. He and Mark Lamping have been persistent in saying that they need the team to generate more revenue.  Unfortunately, as one of the smallest NFL markets in population and corporate presence, the ceiling for making significant progress through conventional means is fairly limited.  The Shipyards is a game changer, though hardly unique in major league sports. Robert Kraft did the same thing with the Patriots in Foxboro, setting up hotels and restaurants and other attractions near Gillette Stadium, and he gets a piece of that pie.  The Atlanta Braves are in the process of building a new stadium outside of Atlanta in Cobb County (where I live) and one of the main reasons is because the new stadium will be surrounded by attractions that will generate revenue for the team? Anyone ever been to Turner Field? It's a nice stadium, but it's surrounded by one bar, and a few dinky hotels.

I don't know how much of Khan's money will be spent on this, or what the city's share will be.  But the council members know that this is the best deal they're every gonna get.  And I think it will be made clear to them that if they vote 'no', they'll lose a lot more than the Shipyards.

[Coolyfett]

Ennis, I have not kept up on this the way you have but I think I recall you once mentioning that the Shipyards is not something that is interfaced directly with downtown.  This project sure looks flashy that much is true but something about it is uncomfortable to me.  It is so not Jacksonville or N.E. Florida.  I like exciting and dramatic projects and am thrilled that the Shipyards may be made viable but why must Jacksonville always get distracted by shiny objects? lol  Just not particularly in love with this idea, it doesn't feel right as if it belongs with the other big failed projects in Dubai or China.  But hey, at least it is a positive start after a dry period and years worth of empty promises.  My first thoughts were about how this would interface with a downtown focused on the re-use of historic structures and my next thought was that palm trees are not shade trees and all of those open walkways are going to be some kinda hot in the summer.  I hope Khan's people follow this site though because those doing the designing have no idea of how this is going to interface in a meaning full way with downtown to my view.  Just my initial thoughts along with the realization that the taxpayers are going to be paying a major part of the tab regarding this vision.  Khan leverages his money.  I wonder what the actual working of a deal he has going might be?  I can tell you his support of Alvin Brown means Brown in on the same page with Khan and whatever he proposes. 

This is how I felt when I saw it in the JBJ yesterday. Im also starting not to like Mayor Brown either....its just too pie in the sky to me. I like Khan and his "mojo" talk but the fact that he seems to be lone ranger when it comes to flare, swagger and ideas make me wonder if he the only rich guy in Duval, St Johns and Clay?? He (and Jacksonville) needs to have some competitors. Someone else with flare, swagger and ideas. Its like the other folks with heavy pockets are hiding which makes the Jacksonville metro seem SMALLER then it actually is, making Khan not really have to step his game up like Simms was mentioning. The Jacksonville heavies stay in the shadows, while Khan does all the moves making it seem like he is the ONLY mover. Its kinda like how Dallas has Mark Cuban and Jerry Jones, owners with that BIG persona and it doesnt have to be the owner of major sports team, Im just using that as an example. I just wish Khan didnt get the full spotlight all the time. Not because of him, but because of the other people with money shying away.

[thelakelander]

I think this was just to get people excited.

Bingo! It certainly worked. I can't wait to learn more about the financial side of this.

[spuwho]

They interviewed Mark Lamping this morning on WOKV and the impression is that this is just a concept that needs community input. He strongly impressed for the need to get community input into all aspects of the proposal.

Contrast that with othe developments in Jax that seem to appear with little or no public feedback.

This is an org that is laying it all out there and saying "please, we want your feedback". I find it hard to criticize that posture even if there was anything I didnt agree with in the material.

For me (IMHO) the scope is right, its consistent with Jax overall and provides a good front door to the stadium.

My concerns are around connectivity with downtown and accessibility during stadium events that arent the Jaguars.

The rest is the details to be worked out at a micro level. But i like the direction at a macro level.

[edjax]

DIA CEO Wallace says that Khan' s group actually used the DIA feasibility study to guide their design and they were very pleased with this and that their vision was in align with the study.  This is per twitter from Stephanie Brown of WOKV.

[edjax]

Ennis, I have not kept up on this the way you have but I think I recall you once mentioning that the Shipyards is not something that is interfaced directly with downtown.  This project sure looks flashy that much is true but something about it is uncomfortable to me.  It is so not Jacksonville or N.E. Florida.  I like exciting and dramatic projects and am thrilled that the Shipyards may be made viable but why must Jacksonville always get distracted by shiny objects? lol  Just not particularly in love with this idea, it doesn't feel right as if it belongs with the other big failed projects in Dubai or China.  But hey, at least it is a positive start after a dry period and years worth of empty promises.  My first thoughts were about how this would interface with a downtown focused on the re-use of historic structures and my next thought was that palm trees are not shade trees and all of those open walkways are going to be some kinda hot in the summer.  I hope Khan's people follow this site though because those doing the designing have no idea of how this is going to interface in a meaning full way with downtown to my view.  Just my initial thoughts along with the realization that the taxpayers are going to be paying a major part of the tab regarding this vision.  Khan leverages his money.  I wonder what the actual working of a deal he has going might be?  I can tell you his support of Alvin Brown means Brown in on the same page with Khan and whatever he proposes. 

This is how I felt when I saw it in the JBJ yesterday. Im also starting not to like Mayor Brown either....its just too pie in the sky to me. I like Khan and his "mojo" talk but the fact that he seems to be lone ranger when it comes to flare, swagger and ideas make me wonder if he the only rich guy in Duval, St Johns and Clay?? He (and Jacksonville) needs to have some competitors. Someone else with flare, swagger and ideas. Its like the other folks with heavy pockets are hiding which makes the Jacksonville metro seem SMALLER then it actually is, making Khan not really have to step his game up like Simms was mentioning. The Jacksonville heavies stay in the shadows, while Khan does all the moves making it seem like he is the ONLY mover. Its kinda like how Dallas has Mark Cuban and Jerry Jones, owners with that BIG persona and it doesnt have to be the owner of major sports team, Im just using that as an example. I just wish Khan didnt get the full spotlight all the time. Not because of him, but because of the other people with money shying away.

Personally I think worrying about who is getting the spotlight is part of the ongoing problem with Jacksonville.  The old guard always more concerned about who is getting credit instead of actually doing anything.  I believe this was also alluded to by the guy that came here to head Visit Jacksonville.  To me the spotlight can shine brightly on him if he actually accomplishes something here.  Sorta like Rummel is for Healthy Town and Coley for Brooklyn.

[tufsu1]

Yes, I get that.  I lived in Boston before the Big Dig.  But in this case, if I am driving from anywhere in the Core toward the Beaches, I'd rather jump on the Hart Bridge via Liberty Street than have to drive through the Shipyards, and past and around the stadium.

you just drive down Bay Street (which is remade into a boulevard)...and then up the ramp onto the bridge somewhere around Met Park.

[tufsu1]

This is how I felt when I saw it in the JBJ yesterday. Im also starting not to like Mayor Brown either....its just too pie in the sky to me. I like Khan and his "mojo" talk but the fact that he seems to be lone ranger when it comes to flare, swagger and ideas make me wonder if he the only rich guy in Duval, St Johns and Clay??

I believe Khan once said homeless people in Detroit have more mojo than millionaires in Jacksonville.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

This is how I felt when I saw it in the JBJ yesterday. Im also starting not to like Mayor Brown either....its just too pie in the sky to me. I like Khan and his "mojo" talk but the fact that he seems to be lone ranger when it comes to flare, swagger and ideas make me wonder if he the only rich guy in Duval, St Johns and Clay??

I believe Khan once said homeless people in Detroit have more mojo than millionaires in Jacksonville.

Let me lend a hand here:

http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=542777

[Kerry]

If they want public input, when does the charrette start?

[Jason]

::dreaming::

Man, how cool would it be to have an indepth Q&A session live on this site with Mr. Kahn......

::end dreaming::


I'm late chiming in here but after reading through all of the posts so far I think that my opinion sits with the majority.  I think this presentation was built to generate some serious buzz.  I also think that the "bones" of the concept presented are solid and well thought out, although, the details still need to be worked on.  This is the first step towards developing a true master plan for the site and I believe that Kahn is the guy to get this done.

[wsansewjs]

Also, Khan, the man himself, is no real estate man.  No engineer.  No architect.  He does have the money to hire the best, though.  It would appear he has not done so.

Simms,

You just completely lost my respect for all of your statements out of the window when you called Mr. Khan a "no engineer." when he is really an engineer for a long time. He is a engineer-oriented business man, so he does have some idea of what engineering concepts can work or not.

Bloody hell.

-Josh