Author Topic: Roost Cafe and Coffee shop trying to open on Oak St?  (Read 30046 times)

Steve

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Re: Roost Cafe and Coffee shop trying to open on Oak St?
« Reply #135 on: May 05, 2016, 04:28:33 PM »
^YES, and the difference is ASTRONOMICAL in price. One is a 4COP and one is a SRX but I never remember which is which.

A Restaraunt that has 150 seats (or 100 Downtown, part of 5 Points, and in the Commercial Character Areas of Riverside/Avondale) and has 51% of their revenue from food can get a different license. This license is about $3k/year.

The "bar" license is hundreds of thousands of dollars up front. So, it makes a difference-that's why they want 150 seats-Oak Street is not a commercial character area.

Steve

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Re: Roost Cafe and Coffee shop trying to open on Oak St?
« Reply #136 on: May 05, 2016, 04:29:27 PM »
It looks like that site and the back lot can be reworked to include far more than the 41 parking spots the article mentions.  Snap fitness and the laundromat don't need more than 8 spaces at any given time.  I don't think a restaurant is the highest and best use for that site, but reduce the seat count to 100 and let's get this moving.

The whole issue, in all these disputes revolves around the sale of the Duval Daemon Alcohol...  They can't get a SRX license at that spot for 100 seats, need 150.  They can't make money without alcohol sales...

Simple solution would be to eliminate the 150 seat requirement everywhere.. not just specially RAP chosen zones.

They aren't RAP chosen-they match the city's zoning in the neighborhood.

Sentient

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Re: Roost Cafe and Coffee shop trying to open on Oak St?
« Reply #137 on: May 05, 2016, 04:40:54 PM »
It looks like that site and the back lot can be reworked to include far more than the 41 parking spots the article mentions.  Snap fitness and the laundromat don't need more than 8 spaces at any given time.  I don't think a restaurant is the highest and best use for that site, but reduce the seat count to 100 and let's get this moving.

The whole issue, in all these disputes revolves around the sale of the Duval Daemon Alcohol...  They can't get a SRX license at that spot for 100 seats, need 150.  They can't make money without alcohol sales...

Simple solution would be to eliminate the 150 seat requirement everywhere.. not just specially RAP chosen zones.

They aren't RAP chosen-they match the city's zoning in the neighborhood.

I believe it does not match one for one.

dp8541

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Re: Roost Cafe and Coffee shop trying to open on Oak St?
« Reply #138 on: May 05, 2016, 04:47:44 PM »
Just for my personal knowledge, are there two types of liquor licenses available?  I always hear about the issue with restaurants needing 150 seats to qualify to purchase the license.  Is there a separate type of license that bar only establishments can obtain (like Rogue or Loft on King St, or Sidecar in San marco for example).

Yes a COP 4 license, which is what true bars and liquor stores have.  Which are limited artificially by population, hence there is a monopoly in effect, they trade hands for in excess of $300k when they are available.  similar to taxi medallions in rationing.  SRX is an accommodation to restaurants, but you have square footage (2,500) and minimum seating requirements (150) and must have total revenues equal 51% food sales and 49% beverage sales.  The J Bill introduced after the secret Biscotti's licensing attempt reduces these to 100 seats but only in a few designated areas in 5 points, Avondale etc.  Not this strip.

Thanks!

Sentient

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Re: Roost Cafe and Coffee shop trying to open on Oak St?
« Reply #139 on: May 05, 2016, 04:53:35 PM »
Just for my personal knowledge, are there two types of liquor licenses available?  I always hear about the issue with restaurants needing 150 seats to qualify to purchase the license.  Is there a separate type of license that bar only establishments can obtain (like Rogue or Loft on King St, or Sidecar in San marco for example).

Yes a COP 4 license, which is what true bars and liquor stores have.  Which are limited artificially by population, hence there is a monopoly in effect, they trade hands for in excess of $300k when they are available.  similar to taxi medallions in rationing.  SRX is an accommodation to restaurants, but you have square footage (2,500) and minimum seating requirements (150) and must have total revenues equal 51% food sales and 49% beverage sales.  The J Bill introduced after the secret Biscotti's licensing attempt reduces these to 100 seats but only in a few designated areas in 5 points, Avondale etc.  Not this strip.

Thanks!

This strip is eligible for an exception allowing a 60 seat restaurant.  In NY, Chicago, LA, Boston, San Francisco etc... there are hundreds of sub 60 seat restaurants...  A 60 seater could make money in that spot WITH alchohol sales.

But Jax hates alcohol sales... so they create massive disincentives for people to come in and start businesses while reusing existing spaces... forcing gigantic renovations, knock downs, new structures instead.  which increases capital costs and return rate requirements and risk...

When was the last time you were in Mello or Mojo at 10PM and couldn't get a seat?  Large empty spaces...

Sentient

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Re: Roost Cafe and Coffee shop trying to open on Oak St?
« Reply #140 on: May 05, 2016, 04:56:02 PM »
So what happened at the council hearing?

Steve

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Re: Roost Cafe and Coffee shop trying to open on Oak St?
« Reply #141 on: May 05, 2016, 05:08:28 PM »
It looks like that site and the back lot can be reworked to include far more than the 41 parking spots the article mentions.  Snap fitness and the laundromat don't need more than 8 spaces at any given time.  I don't think a restaurant is the highest and best use for that site, but reduce the seat count to 100 and let's get this moving.

The whole issue, in all these disputes revolves around the sale of the Duval Daemon Alcohol...  They can't get a SRX license at that spot for 100 seats, need 150.  They can't make money without alcohol sales...

Simple solution would be to eliminate the 150 seat requirement everywhere.. not just specially RAP chosen zones.

They aren't RAP chosen-they match the city's zoning in the neighborhood.

I believe it does not match one for one.

It does. The J-Bill specifically passed by Council that went to the State matched it identically. That was the intent.

The J-Bill was written before the concept of Roost even was announced.

Steve

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Re: Roost Cafe and Coffee shop trying to open on Oak St?
« Reply #142 on: May 05, 2016, 05:11:56 PM »
Just for my personal knowledge, are there two types of liquor licenses available?  I always hear about the issue with restaurants needing 150 seats to qualify to purchase the license.  Is there a separate type of license that bar only establishments can obtain (like Rogue or Loft on King St, or Sidecar in San marco for example).

Yes a COP 4 license, which is what true bars and liquor stores have.  Which are limited artificially by population, hence there is a monopoly in effect, they trade hands for in excess of $300k when they are available.  similar to taxi medallions in rationing.  SRX is an accommodation to restaurants, but you have square footage (2,500) and minimum seating requirements (150) and must have total revenues equal 51% food sales and 49% beverage sales.  The J Bill introduced after the secret Biscotti's licensing attempt reduces these to 100 seats but only in a few designated areas in 5 points, Avondale etc.  Not this strip.

Thanks!

This strip is eligible for an exception allowing a 60 seat restaurant.  In NY, Chicago, LA, Boston, San Francisco etc... there are hundreds of sub 60 seat restaurants...  A 60 seater could make money in that spot WITH alchohol sales.

But Jax hates alcohol sales... so they create massive disincentives for people to come in and start businesses while reusing existing spaces... forcing gigantic renovations, knock downs, new structures instead.  which increases capital costs and return rate requirements and risk...

When was the last time you were in Mello or Mojo at 10PM and couldn't get a seat?  Large empty spaces...

To be clear for people on the forum (though if you know 4COP and SRX you are probably aware), it's spirits. Beer and wine does not have the 150 seat rule.

Putting that aside, I don't disagree. The whole state law is written around Restaraunt's the size of a typically Applebee's or Chili's, not for independent Restaraunts. Personally, I'd be fine with getting rid of the 150 or 100 seat rule and retaining the 51% rule.

dp8541

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Re: Roost Cafe and Coffee shop trying to open on Oak St?
« Reply #143 on: May 05, 2016, 05:28:33 PM »
One follow up question - is a restaurant required to use only the SFX license, or would a restaurant which did not meet the minimum seat or square footage requirement have the option to purchase an existing 4COP (if they could find and afford one)?

dp8541

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Re: Roost Cafe and Coffee shop trying to open on Oak St?
« Reply #144 on: May 05, 2016, 06:16:31 PM »
So then yes?  For example, any zoning issues aside, would a 90 seat restaurant/bar be permitted to purchase and operate under a 4COP license?

Know Growth

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Re: Roost Cafe and Coffee shop trying to open on Oak St?
« Reply #145 on: May 05, 2016, 10:15:51 PM »
There were WAY more than a dozen people at the protest, but the reporter chose only to count the ones directly in front of Deluxe and Snap.  An honest editing error or an effort to diminish the number of people opposed to the project?

No matter. The only 'ones' that matters are those with 'standing' and propensity, financial resources to defend against ungainly,inappropriate land use & rezone request.
 And that's all it is,a re-zone request placed at the feet of the public's government.No guarantee or assumed "right" can be assumed on the Applicants' part other than the right to submit Request.

Same attorney for Applicant as Mellow Mushroom,St. Johns Village might be more interesting subject heading. No matter what.

 8)
« Last Edit: May 05, 2016, 10:22:40 PM by Know Growth »

JaxAvondale

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Re: Roost Cafe and Coffee shop trying to open on Oak St?
« Reply #146 on: May 10, 2016, 08:04:00 AM »
The zoning committee approved the application for the PUD.


mtraininjax

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Re: Roost Cafe and Coffee shop trying to open on Oak St?
« Reply #148 on: May 12, 2016, 05:27:59 AM »
Its too bad Danny Becton doesn't believe in Historic Neighborhood values, after all the District 11 councilman represents sprawl and "progress" on the Southside of Jax. And Bowman co-sponsored the LGBT HRO bill back in January, some friend he is to the district and its residents.

johnnyliar

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Re: Roost Cafe and Coffee shop trying to open on Oak St?
« Reply #149 on: May 12, 2016, 09:11:51 AM »
I'm extremely excited about this going forward.
I believe it will fit perfectly in the neighborhood.