Author Topic: Pension fix only issue on Mayor Lenny Curry's agenda  (Read 10675 times)

TheCat

  • Metro Jacksonville
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2568
Re: Pension fix only issue on Mayor Lenny Curry's agenda
« Reply #45 on: April 24, 2016, 10:21:10 AM »
This article from the daily record was written Feb  11, 2016 regarding the state approval process for the referendum when the bill was still in the 18 member State Affairs Committee

Highlights:

Only 2 of the 18 members voted against it.



https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=547028
« Last Edit: April 24, 2016, 11:16:23 AM by TheCat »

Tacachale

  • Guest
Re: Pension fix only issue on Mayor Lenny Curry's agenda
« Reply #46 on: April 25, 2016, 12:00:35 PM »
Curry was on Melissa Ross this morning. He says the city's annual payment is actually up to $260,000,000 and it will continue to increase, rising to $300,000,000 within a few years (presumably this is the 30% figure Cat was talking about). Additionally, Curry expects the pension to be fully funded by 2060 under his plan, as it will also include collective bargaining that would require current employees to contribute 10% to their plans, with future employees being shifted to a 401k plan. In the future, the city and pension board will meet to negotiate every 3 years (which we probably should have been doing all along), so it shouldn't be as difficult to keep things at the market rate in the future.

He also talked about some of the other proposed options to help deal with the crisis. He says that trying for a sales tax that takes effect now (on top of the BJP tax) would never get through the legislature. He also said that he opposes a millage rate increase - it would take a 3 mill increase all at once (around a 30% hike) and there would be no way to tie it specifically to the pension. More than likely, the money would be re-appropriated by a future mayor, or the rate would be cut again. And certainly if it were put to a vote it would never pass.

I think what he's going to need to sell people on is what he'll do with the savings. We would have tens of millions more in the budget every year that's not just going to pay down debt c. He talked this morning (and before) about dedicating part of it for police and crime prevention. That's likely be one of the more impactful things we could put it toward, but it doesn't have the power of building something new.

sanmarcomatt

  • Guest
Re: Pension fix only issue on Mayor Lenny Curry's agenda
« Reply #47 on: April 25, 2016, 12:20:50 PM »
Curry was on Melissa Ross this morning. He says the city's annual payment is actually up to $260,000,000 and it will continue to increase, rising to $300,000,000 within a few years (presumably this is the 30% figure Cat was talking about).

Huh.So it wasn't just the 157 mil. Who would have thought?


TheCat

  • Metro Jacksonville
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2568
Re: Pension fix only issue on Mayor Lenny Curry's agenda
« Reply #48 on: April 25, 2016, 01:26:02 PM »
Thanks, Taca. I'll have to listen to the show.

The actuarial reports are showing $200m as the max obligation. I'm curious how he's coming to  $300m.

Tacachale

  • Guest
Re: Pension fix only issue on Mayor Lenny Curry's agenda
« Reply #49 on: April 25, 2016, 01:56:09 PM »
Curry was on Melissa Ross this morning. He says the city's annual payment is actually up to $260,000,000 and it will continue to increase, rising to $300,000,000 within a few years (presumably this is the 30% figure Cat was talking about). Additionally, Curry expects the pension to be fully funded by 2060 under his plan, as it will also include collective bargaining that would require current employees to contribute 10% to their plans, with future employees being shifted to a 401k plan. In the future, the city and pension board will meet to negotiate every 3 years (which we probably should have been doing all along), so it shouldn't be as difficult to keep things at the market rate in the future.

He also talked about some of the other proposed options to help deal with the crisis. He says that trying for a sales tax that takes effect now (on top of the BJP tax) would never get through the legislature. He also said that he opposes a millage rate increase - it would take a 3 mill increase all at once (around a 30% hike) and there would be no way to tie it specifically to the pension. More than likely, the money would be re-appropriated by a future mayor, or the rate would be cut again. And certainly if it were put to a vote it would never pass.

I think what he's going to need to sell people on is what he'll do with the savings. We would have tens of millions more in the budget every year that's not just going to pay down debt c. He talked this morning (and before) about dedicating part of it for police and crime prevention. That's likely be one of the more impactful things we could put it toward, but it doesn't have the power of building something new.

lol.  so only 45 years to pay it off?  wow.

It's the same time frame as the current schedule, which, again, is not sustainable.

spuwho

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4383
Re: Pension fix only issue on Mayor Lenny Curry's agenda
« Reply #50 on: April 25, 2016, 01:57:20 PM »
You dont raise the millage rate 30% in one shot. You phase it in.

I get the "future politicos could redirect the money", buts that is an issue every year. Pass a law to make the increase stick to pension only and cant be redirected.

By going the 30 years later, state legislature route, you are essentially saying no one in COJ today or in the future can be trusted to keep a commitment.

And that my friends is the same reason why the mobility plan was weakened, downtown has issues and JTA can't make a solid transit plan.

The problem is the leaders we elect. No commitment.

Tacachale

  • Guest
Re: Pension fix only issue on Mayor Lenny Curry's agenda
« Reply #51 on: April 25, 2016, 02:22:35 PM »
You dont raise the millage rate 30% in one shot. You phase it in.

I get the "future politicos could redirect the money", buts that is an issue every year. Pass a law to make the increase stick to pension only and cant be redirected.

By going the 30 years later, state legislature route, you are essentially saying no one in COJ today or in the future can be trusted to keep a commitment.

And that my friends is the same reason why the mobility plan was weakened, downtown has issues and JTA can't make a solid transit plan.

The problem is the leaders we elect. No commitment.

I disagree with this on a few points. I don't see the point of phasing in a 3 mill increase. If you do it, say, a mill a year, what's the point of phasing it at all? And if you phase it out more than that it increases the risk that adequate money is dedicated, especially as a bunch of the council and possibly the Mayor will change in 4 years. The goal with either a millage or sales tax increase that goes into effect now was to front-load the payment to ease the burden every year. That's impossible if it's only being increased incrementally over a long span of time. That said, I imagine Curry will have more to say on the millage rate in the event the sales tax plan doesn't pass. We can't go on like we're going.

I think it's just realism that we can't trust future governments with dealing with this issue. It's a complex problem that compounds over time. It's not going to be solved entirely in one term, and most of our leaders don't have much incentive to think beyond their term.

FlaBoy

  • Guest
Re: Pension fix only issue on Mayor Lenny Curry's agenda
« Reply #52 on: April 25, 2016, 02:37:56 PM »
I think it makes sense for the most part. It is all about solvency and by having this money definitely coming in the future, you get the benefit of solvency today while also getting to hopefully see the benefits of inflationary policy as the debt won't cost as much in 30 years as it does now. It is also a lot easier to pass something that will simply continue a tax that is already in place.

My only questions about the plan is what are we doing with the debt in the meantime? Are we re-bonding the current debt? How does that work?

MusicMan

  • Guest
Re: Pension fix only issue on Mayor Lenny Curry's agenda
« Reply #53 on: April 26, 2016, 08:31:12 AM »
Curry says, "The annual payment is up to $260,000,000."  Seriously?  How many people are retiring on this fund?

tufsu1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11581
Re: Pension fix only issue on Mayor Lenny Curry's agenda
« Reply #54 on: April 26, 2016, 11:23:27 AM »
Curry says, "The annual payment is up to $260,000,000."  Seriously?  How many people are retiring on this fund?

you do understand that payments are made to pretty much any retired city employee still alive, right?

strider

  • Guest
Re: Pension fix only issue on Mayor Lenny Curry's agenda
« Reply #55 on: April 26, 2016, 12:54:33 PM »
Curry says, "The annual payment is up to $260,000,000."  Seriously?  How many people are retiring on this fund?

you do understand that payments are made to pretty much any retired city employee still alive, right?

I would assume that the pension fund itself pays the retirees not the city directly so the fund, like all retirement funds, gets invested and hopefully gains in value so it can meet it's obligations.  Isn't the issue with the our pensions the fact that we are behind on our contribution payments so that the total payment due really has nothing to do with what the retirees actually get but rather the combined yearly required contributions and the past due amounts?




Elwood

  • Guest
Re: Pension fix only issue on Mayor Lenny Curry's agenda
« Reply #56 on: April 26, 2016, 02:06:32 PM »
Exactly.

TheCat

  • Metro Jacksonville
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2568
Re: Pension fix only issue on Mayor Lenny Curry's agenda
« Reply #57 on: May 04, 2016, 03:41:27 PM »
An admittedly vague plan is approved for council vote. Read Gulliford's quotes below and remind me again why he is on our city council.


Quote

spuwho

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4383
Re: Pension fix only issue on Mayor Lenny Curry's agenda
« Reply #58 on: May 04, 2016, 08:20:00 PM »
"raising a millage rate scares me"

More than passing a sales tax with an undefined detail?

We deserve the government we elect.

jaxjags

  • Guest
Re: Pension fix only issue on Mayor Lenny Curry's agenda
« Reply #59 on: May 04, 2016, 10:54:02 PM »
Sales tax is much more "punitive" to those with lower income than a millage rate increase. Again, Jax is a very low taxed city, so raising real estate taxes to me is not a big problem.