Naval museum for the Southbank?

[ChriswUfGator]

Well I'm all in favor of this.

I've been to a bunch of decent sized cities that have maritime museums with ships, subs, etc., on display and in every case they were a huge tourist draw and contributed very positively to their surroundings. There is really no downside to this plan, not sure why it hasn't happened since we've been discussing it since at least 2005.

This would've been a much wiser investment than knocking down 2 city blocks to make that dumba$$ park off Main.

[tufsu1]

I agree Chris...but to be fair, the Main St. park site was a dirt parking lot...the buildings were knocked down long ago

[Ocklawaha]

Not your typical little "we have a ship"... we can't settle for ordinary inclusionism we need pizazz!

Sure wouldn't hurt us! The USS Missouri regularly draws 12% of all visitors to Hawaii, something like 50,000 visitors a month.  


State of the art museum would be unique this side of North Carolina.

A marketing survey done in 1983 said a Jacksonville Streetcar Museum and Heritage Trolley line would draw 42,000 persons per month.

If Jacksonville WOKE UP and really invested in two first class operations NAVAL/MARITIME and STREETCAR/RAILROAD, we could expect over 1 Million visitors per year. That's something like 15 Super Bowl games per year FOREVER!





Toss in the Riverwalk and the "Jacksonville Stars" concept where visitors would walk among life size sculptures of famous citizens, illuminated by star shaped sidewalk lighting, and illuminated historic markers. I don't have an estimate of the traffic this would draw but with the potential of hundreds of famous photo opportunities this has to be at least as good as the famous wax museums. A photo of Ray Charles under colored stage lighting? How about Oliver Hardy wiggling his tie? Billie Burke handing over the ruby slippers? or that darn CREATURE FROM THE BLACK LAGOON crawling over the seawall? Wouldn't you want a photo?


JACKSONVILLE? WAY PAST TIME TO PULL YOUR HEAD OUT!

OCKLAWAHA

[blandman]

Not sure this is a great idea.  Comparing the Charles F. Adams to the USS Missouri is a bit of a stretch. The Iowa Class BB's were the most powerful (U.S.) warships ever built, and I would guess that most people that visit Mighty Mo are there (in Pearl Harbor) to see the USS Arizona.  12% of all visitors is not really relevant if 90% of that 12% really came to see something else.  I can't imagine this (Charles F. Adams) being a huge, or even large, attraction.  I live in Philadelphia, and the USS New Jersey (the most decorated battleship in US history) moved to Camden about nine years ago and it barely survived the last state budget cuts.  Yes, Camden is a dangerous and troubled city, but it also has a minor league baseball stadium, an aquarium, a (major) concert venue, and state university.

I'm definitely in favor of an additional waterfront attraction.  I just think time, resources, and money can be more effectively spent on something better.

[Timkin]

Not sure this is a great idea.  Comparing the Charles F. Adams to the USS Missouri is a bit of a stretch. The Iowa Class BB's were the most powerful (U.S.) warships ever built, and I would guess that most people that visit Mighty Mo are there (in Pearl Harbor) to see the USS Arizona.  12% of all visitors is not really relevant if 90% of that 12% really came to see something else.  I can't imagine this (Charles F. Adams) being a huge, or even large, attraction.  I live in Philadelphia, and the USS New Jersey (the most decorated battleship in US history) moved to Camden about nine years ago and it barely survived the last state budget cuts.  Yes, Camden is a dangerous and troubled city, but it also has a minor league baseball stadium, an aquarium, a (major) concert venue, and state university.

I'm definitely in favor of an additional waterfront attraction.  I just think time, resources, and money can be more effectively spent on something better.

Suggestions?

[thelakelander]

I thought the Charles F. Adams proposal would not need city money.  Is this true?

[Timkin]

Who would fund this if the City did not?

[Timkin]

I think itd be cool to have an old carrier for a naval museum , but Im not even sure one could get under the Dames Point Bridge?  defintely not under the Matthews , so it would have to be one smaller than an Aircraft Carrier.

[CS Foltz]

Carriers used to come in various sizes........the "Jeep" carriers were basically resupply vessels for the big boys! Even the jeeps were 500'  plus, if I remember right! The Adams initially was supposed to funded by the Foundation that was working on getting it here, but still have no where near enough money and still no wharfing (parking place) destination! Something would be better than nothing, but still have no destination for it to go too! Parking issue's would need to be worked out for sure and there are many other issue's to boot, maintanance, power........City would have to figure out how they can get their cut, they won't do squat without something coming their way (current administration could mess up a soup sandwhich) Lots of things would have to come together to do this........so I don't think I would hold my breath.......but go for it if you can!

[Timkin]

Its really pretty sad that a handful have to take part of the pie always.  I know I would probably never serve in a political office, but if I did , I certainly hope I would never lose integrity.  When you lose that, you have nothing.   

 Who owns exchange Island ? just curious.

[Noone]

I thought the Charles F. Adams proposal would not need city money.  Is this true?

Maybe 3 years ago. There are a bunch of unknowns.

During the period of the Charter Revision Committee meetings Waterways had to meet in the Lynwood Roberts room and it was at this meeting where the group was making a pitch to Waterways to use the 680' Landmar Pier when it came out of bankruptcy. Lake Ray was on board supporting the group. That end  which is the longest  pier would require the less dredging and maintanance of the others.

It was at a more recent Waterways meeting that the group mentioned that it has raised around $100,000. Dredging? If the city pays that is city money. Dock? If the city pays that is city money.

Again, I hope they are out of this world successful and raise $15,000,000. It just has to pay for itself.

I can't wait to hear what has happened that they now want to go back to the Acosta location. I think it is the better location if it is shown that it is. Definately more people in that concentrated area. 

[ChriswUfGator]

I thought the Charles F. Adams proposal would not need city money.  Is this true?

Maybe 3 years ago. There are a bunch of unknowns.

During the period of the Charter Revision Committee meetings Waterways had to meet in the Lynwood Roberts room and it was at this meeting where the group was making a pitch to Waterways to use the 680' Landmar Pier when it came out of bankruptcy. Lake Ray was on board supporting the group. That end  which is the longest  pier would require the less dredging and maintanance of the others.

It was at a more recent Waterways meeting that the group mentioned that it has raised around $100,000. Dredging? If the city pays that is city money. Dock? If the city pays that is city money.

Again, I hope they are out of this world successful and raise $15,000,000. It just has to pay for itself.

I can't wait to hear what has happened that they now want to go back to the Acosta location. I think it is the better location if it is shown that it is. Definately more people in that concentrated area. 

Why would it have to pay for itself?

Comparing this to all the other harebrained things COJ does with its money, this actually seems like a good use of funds to me. It's bound to be a tourist draw (apples/oranges comparisons of Philly aside), and is a good synergy for the existing southbank museums.

I'd much rather have this than the $13mm in part renovations that are currently slated, for example.

[Timkin]

What are they renovating ? the Old Courthouse before they demo it in a few years? Or the Old City hall? 

[Noone]

Update from today's Daily Record:

Next step for naval museum on Southbank

Legislation has been drafted that, if enacted, will authorize an agreement between the City and the Jacksonville Historic Naval Ship Association to bring a U.S. Navy warship to the Southbank Riverwalk and use the vessel as a living history museum.
The ordinance, sponsored by Council member Bill Bishop, is scheduled to be introduced at the council’s July 27 meeting.
The ship is the USS Charles F. Adams, a guided missile destroyer that was decommissioned in 1990. It is currently berthed at the Naval Inactive Ship Maintenance Facility in Philadelphia.
The Adams was the first ship in the Navy built and commissioned as a guided missile destroyer. The 437-foot vessel was well-armed with five-inch guns as well as missile and torpedo launchers.
“Pound for pound, it was the most dangerous ship ever built,” said John O’Neil, a retired U.S. Navy captain who is executive director of the JHNSA. He served on the Adams in the Gulf of Tonkin during the Vietnam War and recalls shooting missiles at enemy fighter planes and pounding shore targets with the ship’s guns.
Eventually, 23 Adams-class destroyers were built and deployed. In addition to being the first of its kind, the Adams is also the last remaining example of the design.
“The Adams class did for surface warfare what the aircraft carrier did for naval aviation,” said O’Neil.
The legislation represents the latest step in the association’s quest to bring the ship to Jacksonville and create a museum to allow people to experience what it was like to serve on the Adams.
Bert Watson, president of the JHNSA, said the total cost to bring the ship to Jacksonville and open it to the public will be about $5 million. Having the City on board will put the association in a position to begin raising money in earnest.
“We’ve been working on getting this legislation for four years,” he said. “The legislation will beget the fundraising.”
Watson said the Navy is prepared to donate the ship for use as a museum. After it is towed to Jacksonville, Watson said it will be dry-docked and the exterior will be made suitable for a long-term exhibit. Volunteer labor will refurbish the interior and create exhibits.
After the Adams is moored on the Southbank near the Acosta Bridge, it will be a living classroom and “the only naval ship museum in Florida or Georgia,” said O’Neil.
Watson said the association chose the location for several reasons. It’s near Friendship Park, Southbank restaurants and the water-taxi dock. There’s also some parking available at the site and by mooring the Adams parallel to the bridge, the museum site doesn’t require much shorefront property.
O’Neil said there has been some criticism of the association’s ability to raise funds to make the museum a reality. He said he’s confident, based on the response from hundreds of Navy veterans all over the world who served on the Adams and the other destroyers in the class.
He also said cutting the ribbon on the museum will be the first step. Keeping it open will be the next step and he’s just as confident about that as he is about raising money.
“We estimate 93,000 visitors the first year, not including school field trips,” said O’Neil.
Watson said the association’s goals go beyond merely raising enough money to bring the plan to fruition.
“To make this project work, we need for the community to participate and embrace the project,” he said.
Toward that end, the association operates the Adams Class Naval Ship Museum at the Landing that includes displays of artifacts salvaged from the Adams and a selection of military souvenirs. It’s staffed by officers and sailors who served on the Adams and other guided missile destroyers of its time who are able to answer questions and provide their own living history.
“The store is doing very well. We have at least 100 visitors on Saturdays,” said JHNSA board member Wayne Misenar, who served for four years aboard the Adams as its electronics materiel officer.

http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/downtowntoday.php?dt_date=2010-07-16

Why is councilman Bishop introducing the legislation? Its not even in his district. Whats up with that? Besides the Daily Record and Metrojacksonville where else is this HUGE news story being reported. This will significantley alter the landscape of Downtown. Anyone know the bill number yet? If this is going to happen this should be a front page news story.

Yesterday at Rules there were 3 appointments to the Jacksonville Waterways Commission.
1. 2010-406 Stephen C. Swann P.E. asked by councilman Brown to serve. No questions approved 7-0

2. 2010-460 Fred J. Engness asked by councilman Clark to serve. 1 question Basically responded with Grew up in Jacksonville, Have a boat, Like the water. Approved 7-0

3.2010-461 Gary L. Anderson not present and appointment deferred.

When legislation is introduced it can move fast and the people of Jacksonville (taxpayers) are scratching their heads and everyone is saying how was this allowed to happen.

Remember Shipyards? Lets give them everything and this will save Downtown. Where is the fiduciary oversite on this?

Again I support the USS Adams and I hope that they raise $20,000,000.




                                                                                                                                       

[jbroadglide]

I think itd be cool to have an old carrier for a naval museum , but Im not even sure one could get under the Dames Point Bridge?  defintely not under the Matthews , so it would have to be one smaller than an Aircraft Carrier.

When I was working with the Save Our Sara group many years ago, the plan was to cut the conning tower off at the deck, lay it down on the deck, pull the ship under the bridges and then hoist the tower up and weld it back to the deck. So thats not a problem. The problem was raising the funds needed to do the start up. SOS also pledged no city dollars, just donations and they fell several million short. And that was back in the good days. Today? I just don't think its doable. Would llove to see it. I just don't think it will happen.