Author Topic: Zimmerman Found Not Guilty  (Read 140203 times)

thelakelander

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Re: Zimmerman Found Not Guilty
« Reply #645 on: July 21, 2013, 04:51:40 AM »
I wouldn't take Rick Scott's opinion on the matter as a setback. That should have been expected. I still see some of these laws getting fleshed out a bit.  The key will be to see what type of political pressure is received and how long it lasts. This is something that isn't going to simply go away.

sheclown

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Re: Zimmerman Found Not Guilty
« Reply #646 on: July 21, 2013, 07:39:48 AM »
BBC News

20 July 2013 Last updated at 21:01 ET

Quote
Trayvon Martin: Protests across US at Zimmerman verdict

read more:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23390975?ocid=socialflow_facebook_bbcws

sheclown

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Re: Zimmerman Found Not Guilty
« Reply #647 on: July 21, 2013, 07:48:17 AM »

sheclown

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Re: Zimmerman Found Not Guilty
« Reply #648 on: July 21, 2013, 07:51:00 AM »
Thanks Sheclown, I appreciate your opinion.  My personal experience and opinion often seems so different from some here.  I find it interesting to try to see where people develop their beliefs.   Read this article and tell me what you think (I agree with its premis):

http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/07/radical-gun-control-zombies-exploit-grieving-black-community//#more

First, you visit the stalking thread and give me your insight to this situation.

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,18813.0.html

JayBird

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Re: Zimmerman Found Not Guilty
« Reply #649 on: July 21, 2013, 08:33:13 AM »
I personally believe that these protests are only being fostered to distract people from demanding that the laws actually be changed. It's been but one week and already the public is becoming numb. Though I can understand and even agree with most of those protesting or advertising and promoting the protests, it is sad to see that they are not really adding to the beneficial outcome. Shouting justice for Trayvon will eventually extinguish itself and because there seems to be no clear goal or mission (except for that of expelling ones personal rage) the laws will not be affected because the professionals can play the wait and see game much longer. This would mean that we must wait for another colossal atrocity to occur and maybe then people will be formulate an actual attack plan to force the law of the people to be changed. And that, in my opinion is the greatest atrocity and injustice of them all.

thelakelander

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Re: Zimmerman Found Not Guilty
« Reply #650 on: July 21, 2013, 08:57:11 AM »
^To be honest, as a black male I find the article in the legal link NN posted to be pretty insulting on a variety of levels.

JayBird

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Re: Zimmerman Found Not Guilty
« Reply #651 on: July 21, 2013, 09:16:23 AM »
Legal Insurrection is usually laughable because they prefer to incite people rather than attempting to build a proper fact based platform in which to educate and foster creative ideas. As I've said before (below), you can make 3 completely different points out of every set of statistics. It just depends on what your end game is as to how you do so.

And like Abraham Lincoln said, "89% of the quotes and statistics you read in Internet forums have no real basis."

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http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/criminal-justice/is-there-racial-bias-in-stand-your-ground-laws/

For anyone whom thinks more white criminals get away with murdering blacks in Stand Your Ground states, that is wrong. They get away with more in every state. And of course that racial bias exists, one of these Zimmerman threads someone posted a great video today with absolute proof that a white person can commit a crime an get away with it easier than a minority. I don't think anyone debates that. The question is, how to change that.

The problem with these studies is that just like in finance, the books are so easy to cook and manipulate and fit whomever the person orchestrating the study needs it to say. Actually, it is exactly rigging say a parking study in Riverside-Avondale.

carpnter

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Re: Trayvon Martin Case plus related discussion of Law and Racism
« Reply #652 on: July 21, 2013, 09:30:05 AM »
What if, Martin did attack Zimmerman first as was alleged and he was beating him, it is reasonable that someone could be scared that their life is in danger and react the way Zimmerman did.

This is where the law needs to be fleshed out more, IMO. The evidence indicates GZ initiated the entire thing by profiling and following TM.  No doubt, he feared for his life when the victim turned the tables on him.  However, many don't believe the aggressor should be allowed to shoot people, at the point he feels threatened and then walk away free.  This is what most of the commotion is about.

How do we flesh it out?  If Zimmerman had started walking back to his truck as was stated then he was no longer the aggressor and Martin had nothing to defend himself from.  You can change the law to require a duty to retreat and Martin would have still been in the wrong in that situation because he did not retreat. 
You can make it unlawful to follow someone, but that opens a whole different can of worms, what happens when someone just happens to be walking the same direction as another person, but the person thinking they are being followed feels threatened, does that justify attacking the person following?
 
We do not know what really happened and all we have is the evidence and testimony that was presented at the trial.   The jury found him not guilty, that doesn't mean he is innocent, but it means that there was reasonable doubt when it came to the charges against him.  Any reasonable person looking at the evidence objectively should come to the same conclusion when it came to those charges.


strider

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Re: Zimmerman Found Not Guilty
« Reply #653 on: July 21, 2013, 09:30:27 AM »
It has been true though out this country's history that there are only two ways to incite change in laws and policies.  The first is to be part of those proverbial smoke filled rooms in which all decisions seem to be made.  The second is to fill the room with angry people so loud that they can not be ignored. Civil rights has always been the latter.

If you are fighting money and power and have neither, the voices of many is the only thing that can carry the day.

The bottom line?  No one likes discomfort.  If you can make the those in power uncomfortable enough, then and only then will they listen.  Once they agree to listen, then you can present those fact based platforms, until then, it will be nothing but noise.

thelakelander

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Re: Trayvon Martin Case plus related discussion of Law and Racism
« Reply #654 on: July 21, 2013, 10:20:49 AM »
We've already been over this a million times over the last week. There's a strong opposing argument that would suggest laws should be possibly modified to keep stuff like this from legally happening. I don't have time to repost all my views that address the points you just raised but they can be found all over the first 40 pages of the Zimmerman thread.

Shine

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Re: Zimmerman Found Not Guilty
« Reply #655 on: July 21, 2013, 01:27:36 PM »
« Last Edit: July 21, 2013, 04:12:34 PM by Shine »

johnnyman

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Re: Zimmerman Found Not Guilty
« Reply #656 on: July 21, 2013, 04:03:58 PM »

Wow , somebody who can put aside political ideology and who gets it.  Nice to see. +1

JeffreyS

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Re: Zimmerman Found Not Guilty
« Reply #657 on: July 21, 2013, 04:59:35 PM »
The only evidence that Martin threw the first punch is the promise of the guy who killed him. The same promise that Z gave Hanity about not knowing about stand your ground laws that has proven to be a lie. So forceable felony is at best a guess when it comes to TM. 

Also stand your ground was used in this case as it radically changed the jury instructions.

sheclown

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Re: Zimmerman Found Not Guilty
« Reply #658 on: July 21, 2013, 07:20:24 PM »
Quote
Father Michael Pfleger: Racism is in the DNA of America

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/07/21/father-michael-pfleger-racism-is-in-the-dna-of-america/

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/HmoP6XEG5ik?hl=en_US&amp;amp;version=3&amp;amp;rel=0" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/HmoP6XEG5ik?hl=en_US&amp;amp;version=3&amp;amp;rel=0</a>


« Last Edit: July 21, 2013, 07:25:20 PM by sheclown »

Shine

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Re: Zimmerman Found Not Guilty
« Reply #659 on: July 21, 2013, 07:21:04 PM »


while i agree with shine on changing the law, i do not agree with shine that Martin was engaged in a forcible felony.  He was standing his ground under the same laws that were given as instructions to the jury.