Author Topic: Zimmerman Found Not Guilty  (Read 139620 times)

Cheshire Cat

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Re: Trayvon Martin Case plus related discussion of Law and Racism
« Reply #405 on: July 16, 2013, 10:17:56 PM »
^Same for white on white crime. Small blurbs here or there but no protests, bumper stickers, networks and news channels.   

In both situations and others, people typically end up being arrested.  The only reason this particular issue is all over news channels and really going mainstream is that the guy who started and ended the entire thing legally walked.  That's the major difference from typical shootings, killings, etc. (regardless of race) where the murder is identified and tried in court.

Unfortunately, sometimes it takes events like this to get discussion going on the larger issue at hand.  Just look at MJ the past few days.  Everyone knows Jax is a city struggling with racial divide.  Yet we've never really dived into it on this forum.  Now there's rapidly growing threads on similar topics all over this site.
Ennis the truth is that many people guilty of crimes including murder walk because there is not enough proof of their guilt.  I think this case became the media sensation it has is because media decided to make it about race.

I agree this discussion needs to be had.  As trying and emotionally draining as it is, the issue of race needs to be completely aired. 

Cheshire Cat

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Re: Trayvon Martin Case plus related discussion of Law and Racism
« Reply #406 on: July 16, 2013, 10:21:50 PM »
^Same for white on white crime. Small blurbs here or there but no protests, bumper stickers, networks and news channels.   

In both situations and others, people typically end up being arrested.  The only reason this particular issue is all over news channels and really going mainstream is that the guy who started and ended the entire thing legally walked.  That's the major difference from typical shootings, killings, etc. (regardless of race) where the murder is identified and tried in court.

Unfortunately, sometimes it takes events like this to get discussion going on the larger issue at hand.  Just look at MJ the past few days.  Everyone knows Jax is a city struggling with racial divide.  Yet we've never really dived into it on this forum.  Now there's rapidly growing threads on similar topics all over this site.

Of course. So what does it all mean? That we're all looking out for our "own kind" only if a member of the "other kind" kills one of "ours"?? And that the media only pushes forward these juicy stories, while leaving others in the dust, because they know we'll all lap it up?? I don't know. But like we both said, there's bigger things at play here that I honestly don't think the general population is really talking about, or even acknowledging.
I think we are working toward that "bigger thing" in the conversations going on in various threads right now.  In my opinion regardless of what drove the Martin/Zimmerman tragedy to be viewed as a racial confrontation it has created an in your face wake up call that deeply felt ideas and emotions about race still exist today and they need to be addressed and so far on this forum we are doing our best to do that.:)
« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 10:31:50 PM by Cheshire Cat »

If_I_Loved_you

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Re: Zimmerman Found Not Guilty
« Reply #407 on: July 16, 2013, 10:43:29 PM »
George Zimmerman has been found Not Guilty what has to happen to George for YOU to move on?

For you guys to stop vilifying the deceased.  He didn't deserve what happened to him and it wasn't his fault GZ started the chain of events that led to his death.  The rest (the real life cases and fallout to come) will happen on their own as the issue runs its course through the system.
Look I'm sorry Trayvon Martin is dead and the pain his Family and Friends will feel for the rest of their lives. But I also must feel sorry for the Zimmerman Family it's the Right thing to do. The Martin family are church going Christians who believe in God. If you really believe in God you must Forgive the person that has hurt you. If you don't they win.

JeffreyS

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Re: Zimmerman Found Not Guilty
« Reply #408 on: July 16, 2013, 11:17:21 PM »
I don't think I will move on until the laws are changed so that murders similar to the one GZ committed are punished as criminal behavior. 

thelakelander

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Re: Trayvon Martin Case plus related discussion of Law and Racism
« Reply #409 on: July 16, 2013, 11:25:07 PM »
Ennis the truth is that many people guilty of crimes including murder walk because there is not enough proof of their guilt.  I think this case became the media sensation it has is because media decided to make it about race.

There's was enough proof.  In this unique case it was a situation where the law allowed it, for how it played out.

As for the media, the media is going to highlight whatever generates views. It's always been that way. However, media or not, for a certain segment of the population, it is about race. Up until the Emmett Till murder, legalized lynching came a dime a dozen in the certain areas of the country.  Like now, it went big when the media got a hold of it.  In the end, change for the better ended up happening.  I believe the same could happen now. 

I'm not sure of what the exact change could be.  It could be as simple as modifying a portion of the aggressor rule Not Now posted.  It could be something greater. Or maybe we sweep everything under the rug until something similar happens again? Only time will tell.

thelakelander

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Re: Trayvon Martin Case plus related discussion of Law and Racism
« Reply #410 on: July 16, 2013, 11:29:05 PM »
^Same for white on white crime. Small blurbs here or there but no protests, bumper stickers, networks and news channels.   

In both situations and others, people typically end up being arrested.  The only reason this particular issue is all over news channels and really going mainstream is that the guy who started and ended the entire thing legally walked.  That's the major difference from typical shootings, killings, etc. (regardless of race) where the murder is identified and tried in court.

Unfortunately, sometimes it takes events like this to get discussion going on the larger issue at hand.  Just look at MJ the past few days.  Everyone knows Jax is a city struggling with racial divide.  Yet we've never really dived into it on this forum.  Now there's rapidly growing threads on similar topics all over this site.

Of course. So what does it all mean? That we're all looking out for our "own kind" only if a member of the "other kind" kills one of "ours"??

No. It means there's no reason to isolate problems along racial lines when the real underlying issue to tackle is economic and environmental. If we can work on those, you'll dramatically improve whatever color on color we attempt to assign to a crime.

ronchamblin

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Re: Zimmerman Found Not Guilty
« Reply #411 on: July 16, 2013, 11:30:22 PM »
Boy .... lots of discussion since I've dropped by.  The killing and the verdict is all over the media .... all over the world.

It's good though .... raises issues needing discussion and resolution.

Too bad there is no clear evidence at this point to convict GZ.  Maybe someone, out of the blue, will come forth as a witness, or will come up with a good video of the events ...  with sound ....  so that a jury can convict based on what actually happened.  As we've seen, its difficult to convict based on assumptions or emotional aspects.  And I am so happy for all citizens that murder convictions cannot be based on assumptions, but must rely on facts and on clear evidence.

Even without a conviction, the movers and shakers can now work on needed changes in any laws about guns and stuff.... and maybe about related societal problems.

I still think that the FBC had something to do with this thing.     

« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 11:33:04 PM by ronchamblin »

thelakelander

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Re: Zimmerman Found Not Guilty
« Reply #412 on: July 16, 2013, 11:32:02 PM »
George Zimmerman has been found Not Guilty what has to happen to George for YOU to move on?

For you guys to stop vilifying the deceased.  He didn't deserve what happened to him and it wasn't his fault GZ started the chain of events that led to his death.  The rest (the real life cases and fallout to come) will happen on their own as the issue runs its course through the system.
Look I'm sorry Trayvon Martin is dead and the pain his Family and Friends will feel for the rest of their lives. But I also must feel sorry for the Zimmerman Family it's the Right thing to do. The Martin family are church going Christians who believe in God. If you really believe in God you must Forgive the person that has hurt you. If you don't they win.

If one is a church going person, then they should have no problem with those who want, advocate and work to see laws modified that will help limit tragedies like this.

thelakelander

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Re: Zimmerman Found Not Guilty
« Reply #413 on: July 16, 2013, 11:35:45 PM »
Boy .... lots of discussion since I've dropped by.  The killing and the verdict is all over the media .... all over the world.

It's good though .... raises issues needing discussion and resolution.

Too bad there is not clear evidence to convict GZ.

All the evidence is there. The cause and effect is clear as day.  In this case, you just have a situation where it was legal for one to kill another, even if the victim didn't start the confrontation. 

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Even without a conviction, the movers and shakers can now work on needed changes in any laws about guns and stuff.... and maybe about related societal problems.

This is my hope as opposed to this stuff being swept under the rug again.

If_I_Loved_you

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Re: Zimmerman Found Not Guilty
« Reply #414 on: July 16, 2013, 11:41:07 PM »
George Zimmerman has been found Not Guilty what has to happen to George for YOU to move on?

For you guys to stop vilifying the deceased.  He didn't deserve what happened to him and it wasn't his fault GZ started the chain of events that led to his death.  The rest (the real life cases and fallout to come) will happen on their own as the issue runs its course through the system.
Look I'm sorry Trayvon Martin is dead and the pain his Family and Friends will feel for the rest of their lives. But I also must feel sorry for the Zimmerman Family it's the Right thing to do. The Martin family are church going Christians who believe in God. If you really believe in God you must Forgive the person that has hurt you. If you don't they win.

If one is a church going person, then they should have no problem with those who want, advocate and work to see laws modified that will help limit tragedies like this.

thelakelander

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Re: Zimmerman Found Not Guilty
« Reply #415 on: July 16, 2013, 11:44:23 PM »
What was the negative of allowing women to vote?

ronchamblin

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Re: Zimmerman Found Not Guilty
« Reply #416 on: July 17, 2013, 12:27:13 AM »

simms3

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Re: Zimmerman Found Not Guilty
« Reply #417 on: July 17, 2013, 01:15:23 AM »
At the risk of sounding so ignorant, I believe that this whole tragedy could have been avoided.  I admit I was once one of the least street smart people I knew, which led to quite a few problems (I was actually pretty savagely beaten by members of a different race when I didn't understand that their asking me for my cell phone was a clue that they were up to no good...I was also alone in an environment not favorable to me).

I don't think GZ was "out to kill black men" that night.  He actually led the charge to protest the killing of another black male by the same Sanford police a couple years back.  He was 50% Hispanic with a little black in him himself.  He lived in as diverse a neighborhood as it can get, with blacks, Hispanics, whites and a few Asians sprinkled in, and they all elected him to be neighborhood watch years ago, and they (along with GZ's coworkers) all stood by him for character support (which I think says a lot).  When GZ called in incidents to police, he never volunteered race until asked specifically, and there were never any incidents before.

I don't factually know what happened that night...all I know is what was testimony, what was withheld (now), what was presented, and what the outcome was.  I truly believe that a guy like GZ wasn't out to shoot innocent victims.  I understand where both parties are coming from - perhaps TM was completely innocent and naive and GZ was acting on many past incidents and experience.  I don't think GZ was trigger happy, but I also don't think TM did a good enough job dispelling the situation (many here say they would "fight", but really?  Well-placed words do so much more!).

In a land where it's legal and highly protected to conceal and carry, and in stand your ground states with high crime, I would think it prudent to make sure you aren't pressing anyone's buttons or sending any signals off.  Unfortunately due to statistics and perhaps some sad stereotypes and whatever conditions which may be unfair that lead to these things, if you are a young black male (wearing a hoodie at night in a targeted neighborhood walking in backyards as opposed to the sidewalk, in the rain I might add) I would be extra careful to avoid confrontation and make your presence and intentions known (as a very innocent looking blonde-haired blue-eyed white male, even I would avoid this sitation and jog or walk briskly on a public sidewalk with an obvious destination in my head if it were raining, or sunny!!).  Sad but this is reality.  Neither party is completely innocent or completely guilty.  Maybe laws need to be changed, but this so far has been an issue that further divides people rather than unites them.

thelakelander

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Re: Zimmerman Found Not Guilty
« Reply #418 on: July 17, 2013, 01:32:19 AM »
Simms, I'm not sure of how hard it was raining or if the rain started after he was already away from home but wearing a hoodie on a cold rainy night in February is appropriate attire.

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if you are a young black male (wearing a hoodie at night in a targeted neighborhood walking in backyards as opposed to the sidewalk, in the rain I might add) I would be extra careful to avoid confrontation and make your presence and intentions known

If GZ was a uniformed officer, this would make sense. While we all know who GZ is, due to the media, he was nothing more than a street thug up to no good that night, from the victim's perspective.

According to his lady friend on the phone with him at the time, GZ was a creep seeking to mug or rape him. He even quickened his pace to get away, only to have GZ quicken his to follow. Well-placed words in that situation (remember, GZ's a thug to the victim at this point) aren't going to do anything.

TM was also visiting his dad, who lived in this gated community. I don't know if anyone is aware that he knew neighborhood vigilantes were over zealously profiling black youths in the area. Perhaps if he did, the situation would have ended up differently.  Unfortunately, we'll never know.

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Maybe laws need to be changed, but this so far has been an issue that further divides people rather than unites them.

From my perspective, the laws need to be changed and yes, it divides people rather than unites, but it's something that has to be addressed sooner or later.




Keith-N-Jax

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Re: Zimmerman Found Not Guilty
« Reply #419 on: July 17, 2013, 02:43:32 AM »
GZ was told not to pursue TM but he did anyway. Funny how people seem to forget this.