Khan's Jacksonville Shipyards Plans Revealed

[thelakelander]

I had the opportunity to listen to the interview. Pittsburgh's Northshore was mentioned by the architect as something he thought the Shipyards could become. What was shown was a vision they hope the community will support to build momentum for the project.

However, it's conceptual. When asked, he didn't provide a timeline for development. Instead he said, they'd still have to get with developers who would be interested in building at the Shipyards.

He also mentioned that the project could be phased over the course of several years......

Btw, a few images of Northshore back in 2009:











The impression I'm getting is that although Khan is one of the world's richest, he's no fool either.

He's not bankrolling something that won't make sense financially, just for the sake of being Jax's long desired Sugar Daddy.

What was released is for creating excitement and support for whatever wheeling and dealing that may be coming next.

Also, this is a long term conceptual vision of complete buildout and development.

Btw, when I say long term, I mean decades.....not less than 10 years.

[downtownbrown]

^ to the last point of filling in more of the river:  I wonder if the architects are mindful of the currents.  They can be quite strong as it is.  Create a high pressure choke point and it is going to change the physics of the area and make those placid looking marina additions much more challenging.  That's why you don't see marinas sticking out from River Street in downtown Savannah.

[I-10east]

Scrub palmetto and sabal palms are native, I believe.  A few other species can endure a North FL winter.  The kinds of tropical palms rendered will not be the kinds of palms planted at this development, unless they budgeted for a potentially annual replanting.

I like palms and have insisted that my parents move out the beach so that when I "come home" to FL once a year, I can feel like I'm actually somewhere in FL.  We can all dream.

Some palms = good.  I think the rendering used landscaping as a placeholder as well, but I get annoyed when I see renders of North FL proposals complete with Royal Palms and Coconut Palms, etc, knowing it will never look like that.  There is one particular segment of the rendering where there appears to be a palm tree planted every 2 feet.  It seemed a bit over the top.

I totally agree 100% well said.

Someone should go back to 1898 and ask these people why there are palm trees downtown

That Sabal palm should be the only type of palm IMO. People can try to downplay the importance of landscaping, but local foliage is natural and important, versus having the forced unnatural 'zoo exhibit look' with all of these tropical zoned palms like in the rendering. Palm trees are good 'touch up trees' and shouldn't be overdone IMO. 
 

[KenFSU]

I think there is plenty of reason for skepticism, but I will wait for the details expected next week before drawing any conclusions. One BIG fear I have is that the city will be so enthralled with this dream like project that more studied, and (IMO more do-able) projects like the Laura Trio/Barnett deal get pushed to the side. The city is strapped for money as it is, and what money that can be found will be need there as well.

JAX has a long history of looking for a silver bullet approach to revitalization, rather than going the tried and true route that other cities have done.       

[downtownbrown]

Based on the video, I'd say the recently suffering residents of the Plaza Townhomes are big winners.  Instead of staring at Berkman 2 in the dark, they will have a front row on Shad's creation. 

[Kerry]

The last 10 pages are typical of major development in any city and reflects the wide range of readership and community involvement MetroJacksonville generates.  Some people are just happy anything is being proposed, and there are others who live and breath development principles.  Sadly, when design questions are raised by the second group, the first group interprets that as opposition to development in general.  I guess the silver lining is that everyone here agrees something needs to be done, all we really differ on is what that something is.

For those that want to get out into the weeds on design principles the book New Urbanism Best Practices Guide has a section dedicated to waterfront development.  Some things this proposal does well, and some it doesn't do so well.  The challenge is to improve what needs to be improved without giving the impression that there is opposition to development in general.

Here are the 8 keys to successful waterfront development:
i.   Transform the image as a gateway to the city
ii.   Create a waterfront boulevard as spine for new development
iii.   Link nearby parks, open space, and linear corridors
iv.   Create parks that act as windows to the water
v.   Provide continuous public access that varies along the length of the waterfront
vi.   Design open space to create value to adjacent land
vii.   Plan for a fine-grained mix of land uses that complement each other
viii.   Design buildings that respond to the water front

[JeffreyS]

Kerry the critique did not come in the form of real questions or concerns, they were rants about it not being the favored software, not a big boy proposal a fantasy. Clearly just trolling the subject.  I think you see here when those in field chime in it is generally appreciated even fawned over.  Simms has been called out and you have seen his comments change to being actually constructive and insightful and so is now appreciated.

[Noone]

I had the opportunity to listen to the interview. Pittsburgh's Northshore was mentioned by the architect as something he thought the Shipyards could become. What was shown was a vision they hope the community will support to build momentum for the project.

However, it's conceptual. When asked, he didn't provide a timeline for development. Instead he said, they'd still have to get with developers who would be interested in building at the Shipyards.

He also mentioned that the project could be phased over the course of several years......

Btw, a few images of Northshore back in 2009:











The impression I'm getting is that although Khan is one of the world's richest, he's no fool either.

He's not bankrolling something that won't make sense financially, just for the sake of being Jax's long desired Sugar Daddy.

What was released is for creating excitement and support for whatever wheeling and dealing that may be coming next.

Also, this is a long term conceptual vision of complete buildout and development.

Btw, when I say long term, I mean decades.....not less than 10 years.

+1
Can't wait for the Opening of the Southbank Riverwalk.
Fishing is out.
Cycling is out.
That last picture. Is that OCK undercover?

Visit Jacksonville!

[Sonic101]

I'm ultimately excited about the impact this could have on the surrounding area. Institution Ale is already working on moving nearby, maybe a revitalization of sorts. I like how this basically connects the stadium to downtown so its not so isolated. Maybe this could finally be justification for a skyway extension and removing that elevated expressway (I can dream can't I?).

[Steve]

Finally had the chance to review everything last night and this morning.

 - Overall, I am impressed. There are certainly some things that I think might be unrealistic. I have no issue with the a football field on top of a building (that has been done many times, particularly one that has no/limited seating stands). I don't know if I see a football field on top of another football field, because the lower football field can't have columns and needs a relatively high ceiling. Domed stadiums are either inflated (meaning snow is about the heaviest thing it could hold, and not even that all the time), metal (which isn't going to support much more), or metal&concrete (which is incredibly expensive just to throw a field on top of).

 - I don't get the "amphitheater". Maybe I'm looking at the rendering wrong, but I don't understand it.

 - Shad Khan is an Engineer worth $4.5 Billion, and is self-made. The tells me first that he has the resources to back this, and he's not going to propose something so incredibly unrealistic that it's nothing but Photoshop/Illustrator. It also tells me that someone worth $4.5 Billion doesn't get there by being nothing but Charitable. He's a businessman, and isn't going to break ground on something unless he expects to make money. I also believe he didn't get there by wasting time or paying people who are wasting time. I truly believe something will happen there. It might not be exactly this, and he hasn't released a timeframe, costs, or what he's going to ask the city for.
 - For those who don't know much about football, what Shad Khan and Mark Lamping are doing on the business side (off the field) with the Jags is very incredible. First of all, he owns 100% of the team, and since the NFL stipulates that you can finance VERY little of an ownership stake (my understanding is he didn't finance anything), he wrote a $760 million check. Not too many people who can do this have invested in Jacksonville.

 - The 2014 Stadium improvements were not only a big hit from a wow factor, they were a huge win financially. His rendering for the new club sections is extremely realistic, and wouldn't cost nearly what the 2014 improvements cost. Local Revenue (which is everything except TV and non-club/skybox/terrace/etc. seating, a very important number when it comes to the NFL CBA and Financing) is way up as a percentage. The team is no longer mentioned with the Los Angeles discussion, even as that talk is gaining steam in NFL circles.


In short, I don't think it's worth going completely to the negative nor is it worth searching online for a website to buy a condo in this place. Take yesterday for what it was: a fun, conceptual presentation of something that in any form, is going to be better than what is there today, presented by a multi-billionaire that has the resources to pull off something of this scale. I'd like to see some more concrete items come out next week. Hopefully they will.

[Kerry]

Kerry the critique did not come in the form of real questions or concerns, they were rants about it not being the favored software, not a big boy proposal a fantasy. Clearly just trolling the subject.  I think you see here when those in field chime in it is generally appreciated even fawned over.  Simms has been called out and you have seen his comments change to being actually constructive and insightful and so is now appreciated.

It is too bad that there isn't a public forum where the finer details could be discussed because with a project of this size there is lots to talk about.

[ProjectMaximus]

In short, I don't think it's worth going completely to the negative nor is it worth searching online for a website to buy a condo in this place. Take yesterday for what it was: a fun, conceptual presentation of something that in any form, is going to be better than what is there today, presented by a multi-billionaire that has the resources to pull off something of this scale. I'd like to see some more concrete items come out next week. Hopefully they will.

I think you're totally on point with everything. Khan is getting most of the public excited about this first, which makes it much more plausible to see a candidate publicly support putting tax dollars towards this.

[KenFSU]

I'm ultimately excited about the impact this could have on the surrounding area. Intuition Ale is already working on moving nearby, maybe a revitalization of sorts.

If Khan's plan comes to fruition, and if Intuition can survive the construction, these guys really hit the jackpot.

Red box is their location relative the proposed development:

[downtownbrown]

Is there a reason why the city isn't already moving ahead with remediation?  Last I looked, that process alone could be 12 to 24 months.  The city has the bank to get moving.  Why aren't they?

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Red box is their location relative the proposed development:

Further proof that everything centers around a good pint. 

Steve has pretty much nailed my thoughts on the presentation. 

In a perfect world, it would be built exactly as designed, 20yr leases would be signed for all the retail/office space and there would be a waiting list on the condo/apt side of things.  Oh yeah...  and another 25k full-time residents would flood the core.

It's not a perfect world; and people don't really get excited over 3-story "Jacksonville Beige" stucco covered buildings (are you listening Toney Sleiman?).  So we start with his dream, and then we tweak it here and there, and I imagine that we'll end up with something completely different.  But definitely something.  And based on his track-record since being here, I think we'll see something sooner rather than later - 1-2 years from now moving dirt for the practice fields at a minimum. 

There is a phrase that keeps popping up that I'd like to address, though:  "This doesn't/isn't feel/seem/appear Jacksonville."

Good.  Khan isn't Jacksonville, and I hope he brings in more influence that ISN'T Jacksonville.  Our status quo is boring, un-inventive and quite frankly a detriment to our city.  I'm looking forward to more presentations along this ilk.