Roost Cafe and Coffee shop trying to open on Oak St?

[Sentient]

Perhaps you need to read it again if you did not comprehend the developers point of view in the article.  It may be too much to ask that you raise your level of discourse.

Residents push back against planned restaurant in Riverside

Some Riverside residents are pushing back against a requested change in zoning that would allow a restaurant to open in a vacant building on Oak Street.

The pushback comes after two local developers, JC Demetree and Ted Stein, put forward the possibility of opening a 150-seat restaurant called Roost in the former Deluxe Laundry and Dry Cleaners at 2216 Oak Street. The developers are looking to change the zoning for that building, as well as half of the adjacent De Luxe Launderette building, from a commercial residential and office space to a planned unit development.

http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2015/11/18/residents-push-back-against-planned-restaurant-in.html

show me the direct quote from any developer.  can you?

[mtraininjax]

While 150 may be too much, I don't think 80-100 is bad.

Its too much for many to comprehend here, so the short, short version. 60 was the original number of seats, then ROOSTer came back and the chicken wanted 150 instead of 60. So 60 was a done deal, then the owners lied and really wanted a larger number for the same small space.

No one is against development. But a lot of honesty will go a long way.

[jaxjags]

We recently purchased a house in Avondale, and the immediate development around the homes we looked at played a huge factor in our ultimate decision.  If having commercial property across the street is an issue with a renter or buyer, look somewhere else (which is exactly what we did).  People move to riverside for the reason of having establishments such as Roost within walking or biking distance.

Exactly - How do we expect for real connected and walkable neighborhoods to develop like other cities of Washington DC, SF, Phiily,etc.

[jaxjags]

Worse case scenario - they open, the product doesn't fit the 'character' of the neighborhood and they're forced to change the business model or close the doors.  Now the neighborhood has a newly renovated, empty storefront that might open the door for another brave soul to open something that fits the neighborhood a bit better.

Get out of the way and let the market decide if it's a viable business or not.  I think that's the point that some other posters on this site have stated a helluva lot more eloquently than I.

Once the business is in, no entity can "make them change it". The issue is that the business might be perfectly viable, but be awful for the residents on either side of it. Remember, this is a residential character area, not a commercial character area (like Biscotti's or Mellow).

Under your example of free market, I could open a paper mill on the river in Avondale that is financially viable. Don't think anyone would want to live next to that.

BTW, for the record I don't have my mind made up on this one - I want to understand it more. The building is a commercial structure in nature (this would be completely different if someone wanted to turn a house into this restaurant), but it isn't really zoned for this. It's zoned CRO (which an example of a CRO business would be the dry cleaner that used to be in it, or a psychologist's office - I don't remember every use the overlay mentions off the top of my head)

Steve, I work in the pulp and paper industry and the chance of getting the proper environmental permits for a new paper mill ANYWHERE IN THE US is slim to none. So not a very good comparison. LOL

[thelakelander]

Exactly - How do we expect for real connected and walkable neighborhoods to develop like other cities of Washington DC, SF, Phiily,etc.

Forget about it. What we call dense in Jax would be considered a suburb in the cities you just mentioned. Unless Jax builds a neighborhood of such density completely from scratch in a burned out area like LaVilla or Sugar Hill (where no one lives), it won't be happening.

[Adam White]

really...  he speaks for the whole community it appears... and will be the arbiter of what constitutes "intelligent" development...  But all is not lost, he would deign to allow it in someone else's backyard...

Erm... he said, ""Many

[Sentient]

really...  he speaks for the whole community it appears... and will be the arbiter of what constitutes "intelligent" development...  But all is not lost, he would deign to allow it in someone else's backyard...

Erm... he said, ""Many

Try reading the actual quote, in context next time Adam - to wit

""The primary concern of the community is the fact that the Oak Street corridor between King Street and Margaret Street is vulnerable to commercial encroachment," Pettway said. "Our best use for that property is residences. We actually would love to see something put in there and see that property develop, but we would like to see it develop intelligently.""

Still have smart mouth comment?

[CCMjax]

Exactly - How do we expect for real connected and walkable neighborhoods to develop like other cities of Washington DC, SF, Phiily,etc.

Forget about it. What we call dense in Jax would be considered a suburb in the cities you just mentioned. Unless Jax builds a neighborhood of such density completely from scratch in a burned out area like LaVilla or Sugar Hill (where no one lives), it won't be happening.

There are some nice older suburbs of Chicago that are pretty walkable.  Oak Park, Evanston, Wilmette, etc.  They are very pleasant and more like Riverside or Springfield with more main street activity (Jacksonville's densest neighborhoods).  I think Jacksonville's core neighborhoods should forget about trying to be like inner city DC and Chicago like Lake said and focus more on building upon what they are now, more like the walkable older suburbs of those cities.

[Steve]

Worse case scenario - they open, the product doesn't fit the 'character' of the neighborhood and they're forced to change the business model or close the doors.  Now the neighborhood has a newly renovated, empty storefront that might open the door for another brave soul to open something that fits the neighborhood a bit better.

Get out of the way and let the market decide if it's a viable business or not.  I think that's the point that some other posters on this site have stated a helluva lot more eloquently than I.

Once the business is in, no entity can "make them change it". The issue is that the business might be perfectly viable, but be awful for the residents on either side of it. Remember, this is a residential character area, not a commercial character area (like Biscotti's or Mellow).

Under your example of free market, I could open a paper mill on the river in Avondale that is financially viable. Don't think anyone would want to live next to that.

BTW, for the record I don't have my mind made up on this one - I want to understand it more. The building is a commercial structure in nature (this would be completely different if someone wanted to turn a house into this restaurant), but it isn't really zoned for this. It's zoned CRO (which an example of a CRO business would be the dry cleaner that used to be in it, or a psychologist's office - I don't remember every use the overlay mentions off the top of my head)

Steve, I work in the pulp and paper industry and the chance of getting the proper environmental permits for a new paper mill ANYWHERE IN THE US is slim to none. So not a very good comparison. LOL

The point was something that isn't great to live next to you. I could have used Paper Mill, Steel Factory, Wal-Mart SuperCenter, or a variety of different things. The point is just because a business is viable doesn't make it suited for next to single family homes.

[Adam White]

really...  he speaks for the whole community it appears... and will be the arbiter of what constitutes "intelligent" development...  But all is not lost, he would deign to allow it in someone else's backyard...

Erm... he said, ""Many

Try reading the actual quote, in context next time Adam - to wit

""The primary concern of the community is the fact that the Oak Street corridor between King Street and Margaret Street is vulnerable to commercial encroachment," Pettway said. "Our best use for that property is residences. We actually would love to see something put in there and see that property develop, but we would like to see it develop intelligently.""

Still have smart mouth comment?

Fair enough - I see your point. I took the comment about many neighbours to be qualification. It's clear that KPettway is acting as a spokesman (for exactly whom, I don't know). I have no issue with his points - I think they're fair and if I lived across the street from a proposed restaurant, I'd possibly oppose it or want changes. It's to be expected. I wouldn't be surprised if the strength of opposition to the proposal weakens the further you move away from the site.

All that said - he (KPettway) has been perfectly nice. There is no reason for you to be a [redacted]. He's not insulted you or anything. I don't see why you can't just accept that he has a different opinion without immediately feeling the need to make it personal. You should be able to disagree and remain civil while you do it.

Or maybe you're just angry at the world because mommy and daddy put you on restriction because you got too many Ds and Fs on your most recent report card. How's that for a smart mouth comment, [redacted]?

[mtraininjax]

Well done Stephen, well done. Its too close to Thanksgiving to allow so many turkeys to run loose in the yard.

[mtraininjax]

http://residentnews.net/2015/12/01/neighbors-rally-restaurant-planned-laundry-center/

New article on the Roost in the Resident today....

Neighbors rally against restaurant planned for old laundry centerNeighbors flatly oppose RoostNot right fit, says RAP

[BoldCityRealist]

For or against this development?

Come air your thoughts on the proposal at City Hall tomorrow, 5:30PM 4th floor, conference room A.

[BoldCityRealist]

Initial renderings here. Super excited and hope this happens! I need a diner in the 'hood!

https://www.facebook.com/TheRoostRiverside

[Kay]

The Facebook page gives the impression it is a day time operation--however, the concept is to be open till at least midnight with outside sales and service.  The location sits across from and in front of single-family homes.  Not the right location for a late night large restaurant.  Now if they actually wanted to be a small diner open for breakfast and lunch, that might be OK.