Author Topic: Substitute Teacher Pay  (Read 1597 times)

TheCat

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Substitute Teacher Pay
« on: May 04, 2016, 03:11:43 PM »
Substitute Teaches in Duval earn $7.70 an hour, less if you have your AA degree. Even un-glorified babysitters (your 16-year-old neighbor) have a market rate upwards of $12 p/hour.

http://floridapolitics.com/archives/188401-in-duval-substitute-teacher-pay-is-old-school


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TimmyB

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Re: Substitute Teacher Pay
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2016, 09:08:55 PM »
As a 30-year educator, and one with 7+ years in the business world, I can tell you without question, "You get what you pay for."  Every state has the exact same issue; schools have privatized every aspect of education that they can, under the guise of "wisely spending our tax dollars".  When sub jobs go unfilled day in, day out because few will work for that kind of money, it's pretty obvious that the money is not nearly "market rate", at least not as far as putting quality bodies into classrooms is concerned.  We've had subs that come in with pajama pants on.  No joke.  We've had subs who believe that their job is to be on their phone all day, looking up occasionally to make sure no one got stabbed, I guess.  Once in a while, we get a real good one.  They don't last long, as someone will hire them as a long-term sub or as an a full-time teacher.

Oh, well, this is the American educational system.  We want the Harvard experience, but we won't even pay WalMart wages.

TheCat

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Re: Substitute Teacher Pay
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2016, 11:19:43 PM »
^We don't even pay the older sibling pay rate, let alone the wal-mart rate.

TimmyB

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Re: Substitute Teacher Pay
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2016, 07:25:25 AM »
^We don't even pay the older sibling pay rate, let alone the wal-mart rate.

Sad, but true.

KenFSU

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Re: Substitute Teacher Pay
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2016, 03:06:09 PM »
As a 30-year educator, and one with 7+ years in the business world, I can tell you without question, "You get what you pay for."  Every state has the exact same issue; schools have privatized every aspect of education that they can, under the guise of "wisely spending our tax dollars".  When sub jobs go unfilled day in, day out because few will work for that kind of money, it's pretty obvious that the money is not nearly "market rate", at least not as far as putting quality bodies into classrooms is concerned...They don't last long.

I would argue that the same holds true for full-time teachers in Duval County as well.

Too little pay, too many headaches, and too much micromanagement is leading to an astounding number of county teachers also saying, "Why bother?"

coredumped

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Re: Substitute Teacher Pay
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2016, 06:12:37 PM »
Education has gone to hell since the creation of the DOE, let's start there.
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TimmyB

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Re: Substitute Teacher Pay
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2016, 06:35:29 PM »
What the feds do doesn't really affect me that much, other than the mandates regarding special education, food programs, etc.  MUCH more of our headache comes from our own state government (Michigan, in my case) and their constant attempt to sell off the public school to their rich friends who want to turn school into a "business" model.  Strangely, no "business" would ever accept the deficient "raw material" that we get from our suppliers, and surely would not expect to turn out gold-plated Cadillac's (or brain surgeons) from that!

Oh, well, 13 more months and I can put that all behind me and focus on another chapter of my life, and it WON'T be substitute teaching.

coredumped

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Re: Substitute Teacher Pay
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2016, 06:56:27 PM »
Uh, Stephen, as you said in your own post, the DOE was created in 79, not what you portrayed in those stereotypes. And since the inception of the DOE, reading and math scores are down.

It's been proven time and time again that giving more money to the DOE does nothing to help students.

Look up "stupid in America" on YouTube, it was a dateline program (I think) that did good research in to the problem.

But, everyone should know by now, that when the government is involved, it gets worse...
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TimmyB

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Re: Substitute Teacher Pay
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2016, 08:02:58 PM »
Uh, Stephen, as you said in your own post, the DOE was created in 79, not what you portrayed in those stereotypes. And since the inception of the DOE, reading and math scores are down.

It's been proven time and time again that giving more money to the DOE does nothing to help students.

Look up "stupid in America" on YouTube, it was a dateline program (I think) that did good research in to the problem.

But, everyone should know by now, that when the government is involved, it gets worse...

Agreed.

Look who makes policy for the doctors.  The AMA, an organization of doctors.  For the lawyers?  The ABA.  For educators?  Paid liars called "legislators", none of whom have a background in education.  Ummmm...think we've found the biggest problem.

finehoe

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Re: Substitute Teacher Pay
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2016, 08:19:23 PM »
But, everyone should know by now, that when the government is involved, it gets worse...

Since public schools are by definition government entities, this statement makes absolutely no sense.

coredumped

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Re: Substitute Teacher Pay
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2016, 08:50:37 PM »
Finehoe, why doesn't it make sense?
Do you believe education has gotten worse since the 70s?
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Steve

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Re: Substitute Teacher Pay
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2016, 09:30:47 PM »
Look who makes policy for the doctors.  The AMA, an organization of doctors.  For the lawyers?  The ABA.  For educators?  Paid liars called "legislators", none of whom have a background in education.  Ummmm...think we've found the biggest problem.

Never thought of it from this perspective.  Interesting....

Adam White

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Re: Substitute Teacher Pay
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2016, 01:47:35 AM »
And since the inception of the DOE, reading and math scores are down.


Correlation doesn't necessarily equal causation.


finehoe

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Re: Substitute Teacher Pay
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2016, 07:24:51 AM »
Do you believe education has gotten worse since the 70s?

Do you believe the Dept. of Education sets teacher salaries in general and substitute teacher pay specifically?

finehoe

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Re: Substitute Teacher Pay
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2016, 12:13:42 AM »
since the inception of the DOE, reading and math scores are down.

Says who?

Quote
Since the 1970s, the long-term trend National Assessment
of Educational Progress (NAEP) has collected periodic
information on the reading and mathematics achievement
of 9-, 13-, and 17-year-olds enrolled in public and private
schools. Long-term trend NAEP results may differ from
the main NAEP results presented in other National
Center for Education Statistics (NCES) publications since
the long-term trend assessment measures a consistent body
of knowledge and skills over an extended period, while
the main NAEP undergoes changes periodically to reflect
current curricula and emerging standards.

NAEP long-term trend results indicate that the average reading and mathematics
achievement of 9- and 13-year-olds improved between the early 1970s and 2012;
however, only 13-year-olds made score gains from 2008 to 2012, and they did so in
both subject areas. Average reading and mathematics achievement for 17-yearolds
did not change significantly between the early 1970s and 2012
or between
2008 and 2012.

https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/pdf/coe_cnj.pdf