Poll

Should an amendment be attached to 2010-604 that would keep the 680' Public Pier separate from the 44 acres that was Shipyards/Landmar?

Yes
44 (91.7%)
No
4 (8.3%)

Total Members Voted: 6

Voting closed: August 11, 2010, 04:18:46 PM

Author Topic: Downtown Jacksonville Public Pier  (Read 64826 times)

Noone

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Re: Downtown Jacksonville Public Pier
« Reply #345 on: May 24, 2012, 08:09:49 AM »
I am Downtown and why you aren't.

Shortly I'll be embarking on an epic paddle that will attempt to reclaim Public Access and Economic opportunity to our St. Johns River our American Heritage River a Federal Initiative in the recent city council action of 2012-273.

I'll be on the Nortbank and will include a Vivian Harrell blue bag cleanup of Hogans Creek and also will do a cleanup of the kayak launch at Sidney Gefen Park.

Two contests
1. Post here the color of my kayak and paddle and win lunch with me at Firehouse Subs. In case of a tie the first post wins.

2. Meet me when I arrive at the kayak launch at Sidney Gefen Park and I'll hand you a $50 bill. Sign a release, take some pictures and we'll be using that promotion all over the country to illustrate how Lost we are.

The Public Trust has been crushed in this community.

I am Downtown and why you aren't.

Noone

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Re: Downtown Jacksonville Public Pier
« Reply #346 on: May 24, 2012, 12:09:27 PM »
Just got back from making a scene Downtown on our Waterway. An awesome paddle.

When I arrived at the kayak launch at Sidney Gefen Public works was fixing the bridge.

Mayor Brown get another kayak launch sign ready. You are Making It Happen.

Will share the epoch story with all of you later. Was able to hear the entire First Coast Connect show with Melissa Ross. And Kerry Speckman on whats going on this weekend.

Will post more later.

I am Downtown and why you aren't.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2012, 06:38:57 AM by Noone »

Noone

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Re: Downtown Jacksonville Public Pier
« Reply #347 on: May 25, 2012, 07:19:33 AM »
MJ'ers Please help.
After attending Tuesday's Jacksonville city council meeting and the vote on 2012-273 FIND list and being the last speaker for Public comment I wanted to get back Downtown on the water and get ready to show everyone that if you think we will be getting more Public Access and Economic opportunity to our Waterways we will be getting less.

The purpose of this trip was completely different. I brought a touring kayak and just wanted to get a sense of time between identifiable safety zones that can happen now if this community is serious about opening our waterway Downtown to non motorized  craft. We do have unique Downtown River Activities that makes our Downtown a Waterway Destination for visitors and locals.

I put in at the new kayak launch at the public marina at metro park after doing a one bag Vivian Harrell blue bag clean up at Hogans Creek. The marina was empty. I started just after 9 and brought a pocket radio so I could tune in to First Coast connect. The weather conditions were Chamber of Commerce.

The paddle out of the empty marina and into the empty river was so peaceful. It was an incoming tide and I just hugged the bulkheads of the Northbank. The entrance to Hogans Creek and that massive dredging project that was never before Waterways was now complete. I took it in to the shopping cart depth meter chart and two wheels are exposed. I take it back out to the river and continue to follow the bulkheads along the Northbank. There is a space between all the piers that's allows you to paddle between the bulkhead and the piers. I'm making great time and I've just been booking it and covering a route that is fun and unique. Paddling along the bulkhead I see someone walking on the bulkhead in the distance. Not a common sight. As we approach and say good mornings she is staying at The Hyatt and comes to Jacksonville for business and said that she has never seen anyone kayaking Downtown. She kayaks and in the future we may Make it Happen. I told her about kayaking under the TU. She's All IN!

This slight time delay was not a big deal. I decided not to take it under Berkman Plaza or the Duval county courthouse parking lot. When I got to the Landing I took a water break and was listening to Melissa and Kerry about all the events that are happening this weekend. The fountain seems to be fixed. Yeah! A train was crossing the river and not one boat was on the river. Again the river is glass. After the water break I take it right to Sidney Gefen Park. Upon arrival there are a half a dozen guys fixing the bridge. Had a nice conversation with the guys and they did a nice job.

I kayak underneath and get out on the sandy launch and did another Vivian Harrell blue bag cleanup. With the bridge fixed all Mayor Brown has to do is put up a new kayak launch sign. Public, Private, Partnership?

The trip back to the city marina kayak launch without any interuption took just over 40 minutes. We need more safety zones Downtown.

Who's next?
 
« Last Edit: May 26, 2012, 06:31:43 AM by Noone »

Noone

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Re: Downtown Jacksonville Public Pier
« Reply #348 on: June 07, 2012, 12:57:59 AM »
Who's next?

A statewide issue as it relates to 2012-273. The Public Trust destroyed. Pull the tape.

Who wants to make a scene Downtown?
PM me.
We Khan Make It Happen.
Who wants to FIND FIND?


Noone

  • Guest
Re: Downtown Jacksonville Public Pier
« Reply #349 on: June 07, 2012, 09:09:37 PM »
Believe it or not I kayaked and fished by the Historic Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier and caught 6 trout. And I didn't get wet. Just after 9 the sun came out and I said the window is open so I needed to go before it closes.

Also after 9 I'm listening to 89.9 fm and First Coast Connect with Melissa Ross and before her show is over I'm kayaking on our river that is calm and is sleek as glass. I love that show.

I put in at the kayak launch at the marina at Metro Park and my initial plan was to take it all the way Downtown. We all know that it was just a monsoon earlier all over town with heavy rains. But right now the sun is shining and the water levels are high. Its an incoming tide so as I exit the marina (just one boat) and I'm now in front of Hogans Creek and a dolphin breaks the surface a 100' off my starboard side. Just saw one and watched 3 or 4 times and that was it. But what a start for just being on the water 10 minutes.

Again with an incoming tide and high water levels to begin with the piers that at times you could paddle under are just a foot from even showing that a space could exist there. So as I'm out in the river a heading toward Downtown I keep looking at the pier that is right in front of me and given the unusual circumstances it just looked as if I could just kayak up and fish right next to the pier. And that is what I did.

I'm about 75' from the tip of the pier. Looking at the school board building. I have some shrimp and mud minnows. I've got one rod with a jig and another with a 1 0z weight and leader with a circle hook. the rods were bending over but you could just tell that it wasn't like a 30" red under the Duval county courthouse parking lot. I caught the trout on both the shrimp and mud minnows. They were all about 11" - 14 inches.

I wish I could have stayed longer but the temporary blue Sky's were turning grey and it was time to take it back. The river is still calm and the paddling was very easy. There was garbage floating everywhere so it was a cleanup that you could do effortlessly as you paddle back.

Here is another observation. There are these birds. little swifts that during the drought weeks had nests and would congregate under some of these bulkheads. I'm paddling back and these birds are now unable to get back in because this area for this particular colony of birds there nesting areas are now totally under water. Like I said just an observation.

As I'm about to enter the marina another dolphin or maybe it was the same one was breaking the surface about a 100 yards away. What a way to start and finish a paddle in another Downtown Destination Activity. Total time just over two hours and that's back at the house.

I've heard back from the administration and I hope that we can FIND FIND this year. I had a blast at the Pier today.

   

Noone

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Re: Downtown Jacksonville Public Pier
« Reply #350 on: June 13, 2012, 05:06:48 AM »
Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting in 4 1/2 hours. Anyone going?  Who gets the credit when we explain to our regional partners that we are just crushing and destroying Public Access and Economic Opportunity in our Downtown?
FIND is good.
Jacksonville is LOST.

Noone

  • Guest
Re: Downtown Jacksonville Public Pier
« Reply #351 on: June 26, 2012, 03:26:24 AM »
City council meeting tonight and if an amendment is not attached to the new city reorg that would keep the Shipyards III Historic Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier outside the control of this yet to be voted on Downtown Authority then we certainly shouldn't be called an American Heritage River let alone a great River.

I'm sorry I don't have a more detailed report on the June 13, 2012 Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting chaired by Jacksonville city councilman Don Redman (I will write more about it later) but a highlight of the meeting was the throwing under the bus of Tera Meeks when it came to 2012-273 and the recent FIND grant applications. The Commissioners of FIND are just going to laugh at us. We are a joke.

The new St. Johns Riverkeeper arrived during the meeting and left before it was over so I never got a chance to ask about the letter of support on the pier.

Be concerned. The circumventing of our ad volorem tax revenue in a citizen participatory process during the FIND special subcommittee on canoe and kayak launch process is an embarassment. We just left $500,000 on the table.

I'm excited now to be working with Dave Roman and hope we Khan Make It Happen with FIND in 2013.


 

Noone

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Re: Downtown Jacksonville Public Pier
« Reply #352 on: June 30, 2012, 10:15:02 PM »
2012-402

Is this positive or negative legislation?

Noone

  • Guest
Re: Downtown Jacksonville Public Pier
« Reply #353 on: July 24, 2012, 08:42:18 AM »
City council meeting tonight. Public Hearing tonight on 402. City council can still do something on 2012-364 as it relates to the pier.

Still haven' posted from the last Waterways meeting. Another eye opener.

Any council member can attach an amendment to 364 that could keep the pier outside the control of this new DIA. Councilman Gaffney has called me and said that he can support that. Don Shea has told Scott Wilson and Don Redman that he could support that as well. Don Shea does not have the legislative Authority to do so but supports the idea. Props to councilman Jim Love and others on this issue too.

The pier is in Redman's district and so he is still the councilman that everyone seems to be waiting for to make a motion on this issue.  The Public Trust has been destroyed in this community. Everyone should not be sheep on this. Intuition Ale is a wake up call for all of us on this DOWNTOWN DESTINATION ACCESS POINT. Especially as it relates to our REGIONAL partners and Access to our St. Johns River our American Heritage River a Federal Initiative.

Noone

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Re: Downtown Jacksonville Public Pier
« Reply #354 on: August 15, 2012, 05:39:06 AM »
Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting in 4 hours.
Councilman Jim Love is the new chair of Waterways.
Councilwoman Lori Boyer is the vice chair.
The only piece of legislation on the agenda is 2012-402. FIND, FIND, FIND
We are so LOST.
This is not positive legislation.
If an amendment is not attached to 2012-364 to address the pier. Then the issue immediately escalates throughout the state to the Governor and the entire East Coast of the state of Florida.
We are talking about the circumventing of the ad volorem property tax revenue during a Public Process of FIND.
Still hoping for a letter from the Administration. RK
Shipyards III The Public Trust completely and totally destroyed.
2012-402?  I'm not making this up. Why is this legislation even there.
Be Concerned.
Does anybody Care?


Noone

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Re: Downtown Jacksonville Public Pier
« Reply #355 on: August 16, 2012, 03:47:26 AM »
The 8/15/12 Jacksonville Waterways Commission Meeting had just one piece of legislation on the agenda. 2012-402- We are so Lost.

So who wants to reclaim Public Access and Economic opportunity to our St. Johns River our American Heritage River a Federal Initiative?

I'm All In?

Going from the minutes of the June 13, 2012 in Attendance council members Don Redman (Chair); John Crescimbeni (vice chair); Commissioners Gary Anderson, Lane Burnett, Ed Fleming, Ralph Hodges, Bishop and Lake Ray were excused and Caryn Carreiro was absent; Asst. OGC Kristina Nelson; Dr. Quinton White and Dr. Gerry Pinto JU; Captain Jim Suber Waterways Coordinator; Jessica Stephens Legislative Asst; Dave Roman Administration; Lisa Rowe Rinaman St. Johns Riverkeeper (Administration); Kelley Boree, Director, Parks& Recreation Dept; Tera Meeks, Chief,Waterfront management; Dave Kaufman, Jaxport; Geoffrey Sample, SJRWMD; Captain Michael Getchell, Jacksonville Marine Transportation Exchange; Atty. Tom Ingram; John Nooney, St. Johns Riverkeeper; Fred Atwell; Mark Middlebrook, Andrea Conover, St. Johns River Alliance; Amanda Hodges; Richard Becker; Atty. Paul Hardin; Tommy Harper; Joe Wilhelm Financial News and Daily Record; Gerie Leigh; Scott Wilson,Executive council Asst. to Don Redman; John J. Jackson, Council Research Division.

The only change request to the minutes was offered by new Waterways Chair councilman Jim Love and that was to change Lisa Rowe to Lisa Rinaman. So moved and we were off to 2012-402

This legislation had to do with the last FIND (Florida Inland Navigation District) grant application cycle. Duval county as well as other counties pay ad valorem property taxes each year. The money is collected and then disbursed back to each county and then projects with a potential funding source are identified. Then they are sent back to FIND for approval.

So why the legislation now. because we love doing back room deals and keeping the Public in the dark and not in the sunshine. What really started this was the special FIND subcommittee meeting on canoe and kayak launches with outgoing FIND commissioner Mike Messiano and acting chair Gary Anderson. Tom Ingram as well as other kayak businesses were outspoken about some project expenditures. And Tom if your out there just jump in. Tom, you kept hammering them about the zoo dredge and they listened. But the amount of money for the zoo dredge as opposed to numerous other less expensive launches seems to have won out. So props to Mayor Brown, Dave Roman and the new kayak launches throughout the city.

So at Waterways yesterday the sponsor of the bill Crescimbeni wasn't there. Is this an emergency? NO. Actually it was pretty tough to watch and listen to. With new committee assignments Jim Love is now the chair of Waterways and Lori Boyer is the vice chair and John Crescimbeni is the 3rd city council member and Stephan Joost is the alternate. Commissioners were searching for the explanations and you are listening to "I wish Crescimbeni was here to speak to the bill". Ah Heck. We'll just go ahead and pass it anyway. Crescimbeni was at another meeting and did join the meeting later.

Hey! You all ready for this. So during Public Comment. And they start the clock for me. First speaker got a pass. (Inside joke you had to be there) So we just pass this sweeping FIND legislation. And there is no FIND update sheet on the table. Just remember we left $500,000 of our ad valorem property tax money on the table this year.

Get ready for Palms Fish Camp. Who is getting a million dollar payday for doing nothing?
We were all given a handout. Palms Boat Ramp Floating Dock repair $14,796 is the most expensive charge on this list.
Hey Springfield
Hogan Street Dock repair $1,059.79
Repair Hogan Street Gangway $3,160.72

The one that is getting to me and is in my hood is Remove Tree out from Water at Pottsburg Creek $1,959.12. CG7 I'll split it with you. Props to councilwoman Boyer and Love because they seem to be looking at attempts for savings and this is just a sampling of expenditures with no competitive bids.

I'll post more later.

The Public Trust just completely destroyed.

So who wants to fish and kayak under the brand new no fishing signs that was never before Waterways?

I am Downtown and why you may never be.

Special shout out to Team Jacksonville.
The 5 IBM Smarter Cities Challenge members whose report in the weeks ahead will guide us for life.






« Last Edit: January 06, 2013, 09:56:47 PM by Noone »

Noone

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Re: Downtown Jacksonville Public Pier
« Reply #356 on: September 19, 2012, 03:58:27 AM »
Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting in 5 1/2 hours. City council chambers at 9:30 am. Open to the Public. Should be a short meeting.

Noone

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Re: Downtown Jacksonville Public Pier
« Reply #357 on: October 06, 2012, 04:52:31 AM »
Jacksonville is so LOST. Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting in 4 days, 9:30 am council chambers.

Going from the minutes from the Aug. 15, 2012 Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting in attendance: Jacksonville city council members Jim Love (Chair), Lori Boyer (Vice Chair), John Crescimbeni; Commissioners Gary Anderson, Lane Burnett, Edward Fleming, Ralph Hodges, Ray Pringles, Scott Shine, Stephen Swann; Penny Thompson was excused. OGC Jim McCain; Dr. Quinton White, Dr. Gerard Pinto, Jacksonville University; Capt. Jim Suber, Waterways Coordinator/Dockmaster COJ; Legislative Assistant Jessica Stephens; Tera Meeks, Chief Waterfront Management; Geoffrey Sample, SJRWMD; Lisa Rinaman, St. Johns Riverkeeper; Capt. Mike Getchell, Jacksonville Marine Transportation Exchange; Dave Roman, Mayors Office; Jody McDaniel, Planning & Development; Janie Thomas, Executive Director, Shrimp Producers Association; Captain Roger Bump, Recreational Fishing Alliance; John Nooney, Recreational Fishing Alliance; Kevin Kuzel, ECA for Jim Love; Joe Wilhelm, Financial news and Daily Record; John J. Jackson, City Council Research Division.

Not on the agenda but giving a presentation was the US Coast Guard on the various Fishing Zones and the guide lines that are used in determining and enforcing the various areas. Downtown is open for business.

On the agenda was a presentation by the St. Johns Riverkeeper, Lisa Rinaman. She talked about Georgia Pacific, Silver Springs, The Port Authority dredge, and the selling off of Conservation lands. She didn't stay for the whole meeting but was able to ask her before she left I got up and asked her in the back (didn't want to interupt the meeting)if she would still write that letter of support that I could take to the Jacksonville city council about the Historic Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier (Shipyards III) and she again said "yes."

Also at the meeting was follow up for the Artificial Reef Program, Oak Harbor boat ramp.

Discussion about the future involvement of JU and that was ultimately put back in the last city budget. I support that.

There were 4 speakers for Public comment.

One speaker Mike Hollingsworth with the Army Corps of Engineers wanted to address some information that had been given by St. Johns Riverkeeper Lisa Rinaman in regards to the Jacksonville Harbor Dredge. Current Reviews will be using Upper Level Reviews (whatever that means). They are still evaluating the depth of the dredge. 44', 46', or 50'. The big correction was to the timeline.
April 2013 Draft Report
April 2014 Final Report

As for me during Public Comment I told the commissioners that after 5 years I still don't have a sponsor (city council member) that I can take to the Commissioners of FIND for a Pocket Pier/ Floating Dock. After 5 years the message to FIND will be 2012-402 and legislation about FIND projects that now should be in the open as to back room deals. Remember that we left over $500,000 on the table during the last FIND grant application cycle. Who gets the credit for that?

In the interim who wants to kayak and fish under the brand new No Fishing signs that was never before Waterways. Or the Super dredge of Hogans Creek that also was never before Waterways.

Who together wants to FIND FIND?








Noone

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Re: Downtown Jacksonville Public Pier
« Reply #358 on: October 06, 2012, 05:32:48 AM »
Yes a pier in and of itself is fine.  It makes a lot of sense and should be done as promised years ago.  All I'm saying is that the carnival like atmosphere stuff won't work without the surrounding property having uses that draw heavy foot traffic to the area.

Lake you are right in that the heavy foot traffic is also needed. What I hope that people realize is that and I may be off with this but our Depts are are becoming centralized.

We now have Parks,Recreation,Entertainment and now to include Conservation. Shipyards/Landmar and its just dumb luck that we are getting it back will now focus on flex space with more special events that will generate revenue for the city. If that is the plan then OK.

The Pier and those that want to embark on the entrepreneurial spirit can be allowed to do so and then be outside of the special events guidelines that are imposed on special events and be able to operate when the heavy foot traffic isn't there.

The use of containers because we are a port city. They can be retrofitted for commercial use. Sturdy. Show up and open the door and your in business.
Types of business.
Food container.
Exercise container
Art container
Sportsmans container
Informational container.

Food trucks will just be around the corner today from the Historic Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier (Shipyards III) at the Duval County Courthouse Parking lot. They start at 11.
I have a Three Layers Gift card for the first MJ'er that posts a pic with their Food truck fare next to the pier. There should be a blue bag message that should also be shown in the pic. You can't miss it. It's next to the fence that won't allow us access.

Noone

  • Guest
Re: Downtown Jacksonville Public Pier
« Reply #359 on: October 12, 2012, 04:40:31 AM »
The Oct. 10, 2012 Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting had me saying to myself that Jacksonville is so LOST and needs to FIND FIND in the SUNSHINE!

Going from the Sept. 19 minutes in attendance City council members Jim Love, (Chair), Lori Boyer (Vice Chair), John Crescimbeni; Commissioners Gary Anderson, Ed Fleming, John Godfrey, Ralph Hodges, Scott Shine, Stephen Swann; Lane Burnett, Ray Pringles, Penny Thompson, and state representative Lake Ray were excused; OGC Kristina Nelson; Dr. Quinton White, Dr. Gerard Pinto, JU; Capt. Jim Suber, Waterways Coordinator; Legislative Asst. Marilyn Allen; Calvin ( Director), Gary Kresel, Jody McDaniel, Planning Department; Dave Roman, Administration; Lisa Rinaman, St. Johns Riverkeeper; Lt. Commander Robert S. Butts, United States Coast Guard; Mike Hollingsworth, United States Army Corps of Engineers; Janie Thomas, Executive Director, Shrimp Producers Assoc.; O.Wayne Young, Governmental Affairs, JEA; Ron Littlepage, Steve Patterson, Dave Bauerlein, Times Union; Joe Wilhelm, Daily Record; Geoff Sample, SJRWMD; Capt. Vic Tison, John Nooney, Recreational Fishing Alliance; Bill Parker; Amanda Hodges; ECA Kevin Kuzel (Love),  Connie Holt; Damian Cook, Intern, Dist.14/ Ethics Officer; John J. Jackson, Council Research Division.

First on the agenda and the best part of the meeting for me was the artificial Reef Subcommittee Update by Commissioner Scott Shine. The minutes of the Oct. 3 Artificial Reef subcommittee meeting were also made available to the Public in addition to other material relevant to the meeting. Commissioner Shine and councilwoman Boyer who were both at the subcommittee meeting are moving this Public, Private, Partnership through the legislative process in the Sunshine that when this is all said and done will be a huge story throughout the state of Florida in my opinion.

The coordinated effort of the agencies involved and the accelerated recognition that you could be the one holding this entire project up is there in the open and if anything it's having the effect that more groups want to jump on board and be a part of this win/win for the city of Jacksonville and the citizens of Florida.

Commissioner Shine noted that FWC needs to write an opinion.
Coastal Conservation Commission is taking a leading role.
Councilwoman Boyer is following up on the Overland Street Project that could supply the material for the reef.
The list is long and all positive. it's happening.

Next on the agenda
Georgia-Pacific Pipeline Update. And whoever is leading this it was left blank. Chairman Love mentioned that the Administration (RK) wasn't there to give an update due to family matters. OK. But we're the Georgia Pacific people even invited. Was an offer extended? Hey, Georgia Pacific your on the agenda for the Jacksonville Waterways Commission. We're going to be talking about you. You have anything to say? Just asking if a phone call had been made.

Next on the agenda was Dr. White and Dr. Pinto from JU.

Then Old Business

New Business:
In New Business Commissioner Lane Burnett addressed the commissioners about a recent trip to Exchange Club Island and then holds up and mentions to the members a handout that he had for them. Sitting out in the audience your thinking OK, You guys see it but the Public doesn't. Last time there was this discussion it went back to the nightmare subcommittee meeting on canoe and kayak launches with then outgoing FIND commissioner Mike Messiano and the manipulation of information that was then brought back to the Waterways Commission members and lets not forget what then happened we left $ 500,000 on the table with the removal of two projects at a full city council meeting and then legislation 2012-402. An embarrassment for Jacksonville and FIND.

I felt so sorry for Dave Roman at this meeting because when discussion was occurring he was looking around the room and Tera Meeks wasn't there to answer any questions. Kelley Boree wasn't there. Jody McDaniel wasn't there. And we didn't have a FIND update. Heck, you don't even see the Port Authority rep at the meetings any more.

There were 3 speakers for Public comment.

The first was a member of the Recreational Fishing Alliance and he addressed the lack of access for fishing in newly constructed bridge areas.

Geoff Sample with SJRWMD gave a breakdown of the recent District Land Assesment program.
Key dates. Oct. 25 6pm. In Palatka for a Public meeting.
Oct. 25 at 7pm at the cruise terminal is also a Public meeting which will be talking about the dredging in the river. If I had to pick one I'd be going to the dredge meeting.

As for me during Public Comment I was applauding councilwoman Boyer and Scott Shine for the work that they are doing together with others on this project. There may have been more people at the subcommittee meeting then attended Wend full Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting. Just don't lose the momentum. I mentioned to the members that I still don't have a sponsor to take to the commissioners of FIND. The Commissioners are in south Florida but will soon be making the loop back up north. Mentioned the Shipyrds III pier. We need to restore the Public Trust.

So who wants to kayak and fish Downtown under the brand new no fishing signs that was never before Waterways?

Let's all join Mayor Brown Downtown on the St. Johns River our American Heritage River a Federal Initiative.




« Last Edit: October 12, 2012, 04:49:06 AM by Noone »