Zimmerman Found Not Guilty

[avonjax]

I don't fully believe he followed because he was armed, based upon character witnesses and his past I imagine he would follow anyway. He had a Super Hero complex and was not going to let some kid make him feel inferior. I honesty believe he intended to initiate an altercation, and then be the hero holding him down for the cops and the situation got out of his control.


Then he needed help with his "Super Hero Complex," not a gun.
His fantasy finally caught up with him and ended in a death.

(This is not an attack on your view.)

[JeffreyS]

One guy was minding his own business, one guy had his gun and injected himself into someone else's life. This is a loophole that Zimmerman exploited if you can't see that it calls your morals and intelligence into question.

[JayBird]

I don't fully believe he followed because he was armed, based upon character witnesses and his past I imagine he would follow anyway. He had a Super Hero complex and was not going to let some kid make him feel inferior. I honesty believe he intended to initiate an altercation, and then be the hero holding him down for the cops and the situation got out of his control.


Then he needed help with his "Super Hero Complex," not a gun.
His fantasy finally caught up with him and ended in a death.

(This is not an attack on your view.)

Fully agree, and if they had focused on that the out one may have been different.  Maybe not prison, however some sort of mental health help.  From the beginning of the trial my co-workers and I were amazed of the personality similarities between his actions and thought process and that of someone whom sparks a fire only to save the people trapped inside.  That is a problem.

[thelakelander]

I didn't follow the case on a daily basis.  In dealing with the confrontation, how was it determined that TM attacked GZ first?  How did they come up with a timeline of punches thrown? Did someone other than GZ actually see the fight or was the chain of events that led to the shooting GZ's version of the story? I know he got his ass kicked but all that means is the kid was a better fighter.

So with these questions in mind, can you get physically dominated in a fist fight you start, shoot the victim and get off on self defense?

[JayBird]

One guy was minding his own business, one guy had his gun and injected himself into someone else's life. This is a loophole that Zimmerman exploited if you can't see that it calls your morals and intelligence into question.

Not 100% accurate.  It wasn't as though TM was just walking down the street minding his own business.  However, GZ should've stopped pursuing him and agitating the matter. The blame lies on the both of them, unfortunately only one survived.

[ronchamblin]

This is a somewhat complex case.  It seems that the lack of clear evidence as to exactly what happened is the reason that Zimmerman was set free.  It is a tragedy, as a life was lost, and suffering must be endured by relatives and friends.

To punish an individual by imprisonment, without clear evidence giving cause for, and validation for, that punishment, would also be a tragedy.  Perhaps I've missed some key points of evidence.  Does anyone believe that the evidence is clear as to exactly what happened?  Otherwise, all this controversy, including the civil rights aspect, is really about something other than the specifics of this case.

[JeffreyS]

It is not complex a guy got away with murder via a loophole.

TM was minding his own business.

[JayBird]

So with these questions in mind, can you get physically dominated in a fist fight you start, shoot the victim and get off on self defense?

The way the law is written, if you are in legal possession of a firearm, yes.  Case law exists that shows people being ago in the back, another with two people shot and killed, and both times the defendant claimed Stand Your Ground, they feared for their life and walked.

I am also surprised at how many Florida politicians are chiming in on Twitter about this, guess it is easier to provoke more hate than to rewrite laws.  Shame.

Maybe the Feds will step in and put an end to this nonsense.

I wouldnt be surprised if "Stand Your Ground" laws, (which were promoted and passed by ALEC around the country---not just florida incidentally) arent the actual reason that the Feds finally ban handguns.

If all the consequences are going to be stripped away from gun murders in multiple states, the only public safety response is to ban the weapons themselves.

That circumvents this kind of free pass for murder.

I believe a federal action is what it will take.  Unfortunately many more may perish before any action is taken.

In the United States, stand-your-ground law states that a person may justifiably use force in self-defense when there is reasonable belief of an unlawful threat, without an obligation to retreat first. The concept sometimes exists in statutory law and sometimes through common law precedents. One key distinction is whether the concept only applies to defending a home or vehicle, or whether it applies to all lawfully occupied locations. Under these legal concepts, a person is justified in using deadly force in certain situations and the "stand your ground" law would be a defense or immunity to criminal charges and civil suit. The difference between immunity and a defense is that an immunity bars suit, charges, detention and arrest. A defense, such as an affirmative defense, permits a plaintiff or the state to seek civil damages or a criminal conviction but may offer mitigating circumstances that justify the accused's conduct.

"Stand your ground" governs U.S. federal case law in which right of self-defense is asserted against a charge of criminal homicide. The Supreme Court of the United States ruled in Beard v. U.S. (158 U.S. 550 (1895)) that a man who was "on his premises" when he came under attack and "...did not provoke the assault, and had at the time reasonable grounds to believe, and in good faith believed, that the deceased intended to take his life, or do him great bodily harm...was not obliged to retreat, nor to consider whether he could safely retreat, but was entitled to stand his ground."

Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. declared in Brown v. United States (1921) (256 U.S. 335, 343 (16 May 1921)), a case that upheld the "no duty to retreat" maxim, that "detached reflection cannot be demanded in the presence of an uplifted knife".

Many states have some form of Stand Your Ground law. Alabama, Alaska,Arizona,California,Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Iowa,Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana,Maine, Massachusetts,Michigan,Mississippi, Missouri, Montana,New Hampshire,North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma,Pennsylvania , Rhode Island,South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee,Texas,Utah,West Virginia, and Wyoming have adopted Castle Doctrine statutes, and other states (Iowa,Virginia,and Washington) have considered "Stand Your Ground" laws of their own.

In Florida, the law has resulted in self-defense claims tripling. The law's critics argue that Florida's law makes it very difficult to prosecute cases against people who shoot others and then claim self-defense. The shooter can argue that he felt threatened, and in most cases, the only witness who could have argued otherwise is the victim who was shot and killed. Before passage of the law, Miami police chief John F. Timoney called the law unnecessary and dangerous in that "[w]hether it's trick-or-treaters or kids playing in the yard of someone who doesn't want them there or some drunk guy stumbling into the wrong house, you're encouraging people to possibly use deadly physical force where it shouldn't be used."
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law

[ronchamblin]

This is a somewhat complex case.  It seems that the lack of clear evidence as to exactly what happened is the reason that Zimmerman was set free.  It is a tragedy, as a life was lost, and suffering must be endured by relatives and friends.

To punish an individual by imprisonment, without clear evidence giving cause for, and validation for, that punishment, would also be a tragedy.  Perhaps I've missed some key points of evidence.  Does anyone believe that the evidence is clear as to exactly what happened?  Otherwise, all this controversy, including the civil rights aspect, is really about something other than the specifics of this case.

unarmed dead boy.


armed man who says he shot him.

its pretty clear ron.

It is not complex a guy got away with murder via a loophole.

TM was minding his own business.

Yes, TM was not armed with a gun.  But he was armed with his fists, knees, and hands .. which can be quite frightening, and even deadly -- and in any case, giving a victim reason to fear for his or her life.

So.... where is the clarity?  I'm referring to the clarity as to exactly what happened.  It seems that there is no clear evidence as to exactly what happened.  Therefore, to imprison Zimmerman, based on assumptions?

Was it really murder?  How does anyone know at this point?  Perhaps TM was initially minding his own business.  But what happened ..... really?   

[JayBird]

http://www.sacbee.com/2013/07/02/5539380/zimmerman-prosecutor-angela-corey.html
OCALA, Fla. /PRNewswire/ -- Florida State's Attorney Angela Corey has been indicted by a citizens' grand jury, convening in Ocala, Florida, over the alleged falsification of the arrest warrant and complaint that lead to George Zimmerman being charged with the second degree murder of African-American teenager Trayvon Martin in Sanford, Florida.

The indictment of Corey, which was handed down last week (see www.citizensgrandjury.com), charges Corey with intentionally withholding photographic evidence of the injuries to George Zimmerman's head in the warrant she allegedly rushed to issue under oath, in an effort to boost her reelection prospects. At the outset of this case, black activists such as Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, who whipped up wrath against Zimmerman, demanded that he be charged with murder, after local police had thus far declined to arrest him pending investigation.

Following Corey's criminal complaint charging Zimmerman, legal experts such as Harvard Law Professor Alan Dershowitz condemned her for falsely signing an arrest affidavit under oath, which intentionally omitted exculpatory evidence consisting of the photographs showing the injuries Zimmerman sustained, and rushing to charge him with second degree murder under political pressure. Dershowitz called her actions unethical and themselves crimes http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/drop-george-zimmerman-murder-charge-article-1.1080161

This only makes me think of the quote "who watches the watchers?"

[AngryMuffin]

Not utter bullshit. Indisputable fact.

FBI Murder stats by race: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-3

White murderers: 4,729
Black murderers: 5,486

Whites represent 72% of the population
Blacks represent 12% of the population

If you do the math on a per-capita basis black people murder 7 to 1 vs white people.

This isn't racist. It's math. Police officers know this stat because they live it.

Thats why they profile young african males and the don't profile equally brown young men from India.

You can bury your head in the sand and surround yourself with people that will further support the version of reality you want to believe.  Or you can look at things in an unemotional objective way and understand things for the way they really are.

Only be choosing the latter can you address and fix a real problem that exists.

[AngryMuffin]

I'm very relieved that the law supported self defense with deadly force.  I feel that it's a basic human right to be able to defend yourself.

This is a somewhat complex case.  It seems that the lack of clear evidence as to exactly what happened is the reason that Zimmerman was set free.  It is a tragedy, as a life was lost, and suffering must be endured by relatives and friends.

To punish an individual by imprisonment, without clear evidence giving cause for, and validation for, that punishment, would also be a tragedy.  Perhaps I've missed some key points of evidence.  Does anyone believe that the evidence is clear as to exactly what happened?  Otherwise, all this controversy, including the civil rights aspect, is really about something other than the specifics of this case.

unarmed dead boy.


armed man who says he shot him.

its pretty clear ron.

It is not complex a guy got away with murder via a loophole.

TM was minding his own business.

Yes, TM was not armed with a gun.  But he was armed with his fists, knees, and hands .. which can be quite frightening, and even deadly -- and in any case, giving a victim reason to fear for his or her life.

So.... where is the clarity?  I'm referring to the clarity as to exactly what happened.  It seems that there is no clear evidence as to exactly what happened.  Therefore, to imprison Zimmerman, based on assumptions?

Was it really murder?  How does anyone know at this point?  Perhaps TM was initially minding his own business.  But what happened ..... really?

[JayBird]

^was it really necessary to start new account just for that?

[AngryMuffin]

I screwed up my account or password or something.  It was easier to create a new account that un-cluster whatever I screwed up.

^was it really necessary to start new account just for that?

[AngryMuffin]

Yes.  If a more youthful - but also larger and stronger person is attacking me it makes me happy that the law recognizes my basic human right of self defense.

I'm very relieved that the law supported self defense with deadly force.  I feel that it's a basic human right to be able to defend yourself.

This is a somewhat complex case.  It seems that the lack of clear evidence as to exactly what happened is the reason that Zimmerman was set free.  It is a tragedy, as a life was lost, and suffering must be endured by relatives and friends.

To punish an individual by imprisonment, without clear evidence giving cause for, and validation for, that punishment, would also be a tragedy.  Perhaps I've missed some key points of evidence.  Does anyone believe that the evidence is clear as to exactly what happened?  Otherwise, all this controversy, including the civil rights aspect, is really about something other than the specifics of this case.

unarmed dead boy.


armed man who says he shot him.

its pretty clear ron.

It is not complex a guy got away with murder via a loophole.

TM was minding his own business.

Yes, TM was not armed with a gun.  But he was armed with his fists, knees, and hands .. which can be quite frightening, and even deadly -- and in any case, giving a victim reason to fear for his or her life.

So.... where is the clarity?  I'm referring to the clarity as to exactly what happened.  It seems that there is no clear evidence as to exactly what happened.  Therefore, to imprison Zimmerman, based on assumptions?

Was it really murder?  How does anyone know at this point?  Perhaps TM was initially minding his own business.  But what happened ..... really?

Yeah, nothing like preemptively defending yourself by murdering a child armed with skittles.

Its a proud day for all of us.