Author Topic: The Sad Saga of 439 East First Street  (Read 4591 times)

Noone

  • Guest
Re: The Sad Saga of 439 East First Street
« Reply #30 on: March 31, 2016, 05:47:36 AM »
I still can't figure out the disconnect after a couple years of following these demolitions.

You guys always seem to make a strong case regarding unfollowed ordinances, broken laws, misused federal and local funds, bid rigging, kickbacks and the fact (contrary to some peoples belief at the state of the Springfield real estate market) that after demo, these lots in Springfield in particular, are now virtually useless. The seemingly craziness of Kim whatever her name is still being on city payroll.
Assuming you have your facts straight and your ducks in a row, does not someone in your sphere of influence have the ability to get in front of someone in power for 30 minutes to get to the bottom of the situation.

Apache, do you have a recommendation?  Because I'd love to do just what you've suggested.

Sure. Get in front of the mayor. Surely stephendare, chrisufgator, tachale or someone has a connection to him. Get someone who can speak succinctly and unemotionally in front of him for a half hour.

SMART Ethics training 4 days out. 5pm 1 st floor of city hall. Open to the Public. FREE TRAINIG. We should build a stage for this.
You may not get 30 minutes but it is still a noticed meeting and on the agenda should be an agenda item for 3 minutes for PUBLIC COMMENT.
Why not?
Will there be any media there? I believe that most of the Jacksonville Ethics Commission is made up of attorneys.

Anyone else feeling sorry for the ........................PSOS gang? WINNERS!
Stay Positive.
Visit Jacksonville!


mbwright

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Re: The Sad Saga of 439 East First Street
« Reply #31 on: March 31, 2016, 08:10:34 AM »
There needs to be some sort of concrete definition, for what is deemed an 'Emergency' and would then bypass all of the normal regulations.  It can only be used, when all other avenues have been exhausted, and is approved by the HPC.  If a building had a fire, and all of a sudden was listing 35 degrees to the left, over a sidewalk, that might qualify, but I have yet to see any that did not come down without a fight, and obviously were far more stable than was implied, or reported in an opinion, not an official, structural engineering report that specifically covers historic building construction.

mbwright

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Re: The Sad Saga of 439 East First Street
« Reply #32 on: March 31, 2016, 08:18:48 AM »
taken from the MCCD websitee.  This is obviously false.

The Municipal Code Compliance Division enforces property maintenance, safety, and zoning codes, which affect the quality of life in Jacksonville. These laws address property nuisance, unsafe structures, residential/commercial minimum building standards, zoning, and (private property) junk vehicle violations.

Municipal Code Compliance enforces provisions of the Property Safety and Maintenance Codes and Zoning Codes, Jacksonville Ordinance Code Chapter 518, Chapter 656, and Chapter 741 respectively.

FILE AN ISSUE OF CONCERN
You may notify us of an issue online now. Please follow the steps to complete your concern, or you may call (904) 630-CITY (2489), and a customer service representative will receive your request for assistance and/or subsequent investigation by a Municipal Code Compliance Officer. Thank you for assisting us with improving the quality of life in Jacksonville.

Bryan Mosier, Chief
214 North Hogan Street, 1st Floor
Jacksonville, FL 32202

(904) 255-7000 | Fax: (904) 255-8920 | bmosier@coj.net
 

sheclown

  • Guest
Re: The Sad Saga of 439 East First Street
« Reply #33 on: March 31, 2016, 11:37:00 AM »
I still can't figure out the disconnect after a couple years of following these demolitions.

You guys always seem to make a strong case regarding unfollowed ordinances, broken laws, misused federal and local funds, bid rigging, kickbacks and the fact (contrary to some peoples belief at the state of the Springfield real estate market) that after demo, these lots in Springfield in particular, are now virtually useless. The seemingly craziness of Kim whatever her name is still being on city payroll.
Assuming you have your facts straight and your ducks in a row, does not someone in your sphere of influence have the ability to get in front of someone in power for 30 minutes to get to the bottom of the situation.

Apache, do you have a recommendation?  Because I'd love to do just what you've suggested.

Sure. Get in front of the mayor. Surely stephendare, chrisufgator, tachale or someone has a connection to him. Get someone who can speak succinctly and unemotionally in front of him for a half hour.

We have spoken, on numerous occasions with three different mayors -- Peyton,
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,9603.0.html

 Brown and Curry.  Peyton's administration helped us with a moratorium for a while.  Brown and Curry listened attentively, for a nano second.

 We have contacted federal agencies and gotten them to respond with an audit that spanked the city.   
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2014-jun-busted-feds-audit-jax-after-kim-scott-demolition-spree

We have spoken to the press and gotten good stories written.

To top it all off -- We reported that Kimberly Scott was not using proper procedures when demolishing structures with asbestos.  See

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php?topic=20494.75

And shortly thereafter Kimberly Scott was named director over the very agency who monitors compliance with asbestos abatement.

It takes a long time to turn the barge.  At times it seems imperceptible.


 
« Last Edit: March 31, 2016, 11:49:06 AM by sheclown »

mbwright

  • Guest
Re: The Sad Saga of 439 East First Street
« Reply #34 on: April 04, 2016, 03:07:22 PM »
Maybe code enf should be called on her place of residence....I'm sure there is something wrong, or even if not, might be fun.

menace1069

  • Guest
Re: The Sad Saga of 439 East First Street
« Reply #35 on: May 10, 2016, 03:24:54 PM »
Here's what I don't get...people upset about houses being torn down, houses that have sat vacant for years with no attention. Obviously, no one cares except those complaining about them being torn down. maybe the whiners need to start purchasing these houses one by one and renovating/preserving them instead of letting them sit for years decaying.
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the older Victorian houses in Springfield. They are beautiful and I can see how awesome they once were and what they could be restored to be. If I won the powerball, I would buy blocks of homes in Springfield and restore them.
But if no one is buying them and they are just sitting there decaying, what good are they? How long are they expected to sit there? Until the "right" person comes along? Pffft. If the preservationists cared so much about them, then start collecting private donations and renovate them one by one and then sell them. Move on to the next one.
Stop whining and start doing.
Just my .02 worth...

I guess you haven't been paying attention.

PSOS HAS been handing over houses to those who have the resources to renovate them.  We HAVE been doing Make it Happen events to help houses before they get to the point of being "an emergency".  We HAVE been doing these things and the pages of Metro Jacksonville have our story.

However the point is NOT what the preservationists have failed to do, but rather what the city has failed to do and that is to follow its own ordinances. Ordinances which REQUIRE the protection of historic properties.

Perhaps if corruption wasn't rampant in this town, there would actually be money available for saving these old houses.

Money from where..the city? Why should the city save these houses? I don't want my tax dollars saving houses. If someone wants to save a house, then buy it. Otherwise, why is the city obligated to save the house?

I hear what you're saying about the corruption and the city not following rules...I understand that and am with you 100%. Follow the rules. Have the homes been declared "historic"? If so, then they shouldn't be touched...but if not, if no one else cares enough to buy the house or get it on a historical list, then let the city tear it down AFTER it has gone through the proper protocol.
But I don't agree with the city spending tax dollars to save old vacant houses that have been sitting there with no interest from anyone.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2016, 03:27:19 PM by menace1069 »

sheclown

  • Guest
Re: The Sad Saga of 439 East First Street
« Reply #36 on: May 11, 2016, 07:18:18 AM »
Here's what I don't get...people upset about houses being torn down, houses that have sat vacant for years with no attention. Obviously, no one cares except those complaining about them being torn down. maybe the whiners need to start purchasing these houses one by one and renovating/preserving them instead of letting them sit for years decaying.
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the older Victorian houses in Springfield. They are beautiful and I can see how awesome they once were and what they could be restored to be. If I won the powerball, I would buy blocks of homes in Springfield and restore them.
But if no one is buying them and they are just sitting there decaying, what good are they? How long are they expected to sit there? Until the "right" person comes along? Pffft. If the preservationists cared so much about them, then start collecting private donations and renovate them one by one and then sell them. Move on to the next one.
Stop whining and start doing.
Just my .02 worth...

I guess you haven't been paying attention.

PSOS HAS been handing over houses to those who have the resources to renovate them.  We HAVE been doing Make it Happen events to help houses before they get to the point of being "an emergency".  We HAVE been doing these things and the pages of Metro Jacksonville have our story.

However the point is NOT what the preservationists have failed to do, but rather what the city has failed to do and that is to follow its own ordinances. Ordinances which REQUIRE the protection of historic properties.

Perhaps if corruption wasn't rampant in this town, there would actually be money available for saving these old houses.

Money from where..the city? Why should the city save these houses? I don't want my tax dollars saving houses. If someone wants to save a house, then buy it. Otherwise, why is the city obligated to save the house?

I hear what you're saying about the corruption and the city not following rules...I understand that and am with you 100%. Follow the rules. Have the homes been declared "historic"? If so, then they shouldn't be touched...but if not, if no one else cares enough to buy the house or get it on a historical list, then let the city tear it down AFTER it has gone through the proper protocol.
But I don't agree with the city spending tax dollars to save old vacant houses that have been sitting there with no interest from anyone.

The city is spending MORE to demolish than it would to mothball it.  I agree that the city shouldn't be in the business of rehabbing historic houses.

And yes, this house is a CONTRIBUTING structure in a Nationally Recognized Historic District.

mbwright

  • Guest
Re: The Sad Saga of 439 East First Street
« Reply #37 on: May 11, 2016, 08:31:15 AM »
When a neighborhood has a Historic designation, none of the homes should be demolished.  End of Story.

menace1069

  • Guest
Re: The Sad Saga of 439 East First Street
« Reply #38 on: May 11, 2016, 04:56:20 PM »
When a neighborhood has a Historic designation, none of the homes should be demolished.  End of Story.
Agreed! If the entire neighborhood has the designation, then nothing should be touched. 

menace1069

  • Guest
Re: The Sad Saga of 439 East First Street
« Reply #39 on: May 11, 2016, 04:58:10 PM »
Here's what I don't get...people upset about houses being torn down, houses that have sat vacant for years with no attention. Obviously, no one cares except those complaining about them being torn down. maybe the whiners need to start purchasing these houses one by one and renovating/preserving them instead of letting them sit for years decaying.
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the older Victorian houses in Springfield. They are beautiful and I can see how awesome they once were and what they could be restored to be. If I won the powerball, I would buy blocks of homes in Springfield and restore them.
But if no one is buying them and they are just sitting there decaying, what good are they? How long are they expected to sit there? Until the "right" person comes along? Pffft. If the preservationists cared so much about them, then start collecting private donations and renovate them one by one and then sell them. Move on to the next one.
Stop whining and start doing.
Just my .02 worth...

I guess you haven't been paying attention.

PSOS HAS been handing over houses to those who have the resources to renovate them.  We HAVE been doing Make it Happen events to help houses before they get to the point of being "an emergency".  We HAVE been doing these things and the pages of Metro Jacksonville have our story.

However the point is NOT what the preservationists have failed to do, but rather what the city has failed to do and that is to follow its own ordinances. Ordinances which REQUIRE the protection of historic properties.

Perhaps if corruption wasn't rampant in this town, there would actually be money available for saving these old houses.

Money from where..the city? Why should the city save these houses? I don't want my tax dollars saving houses. If someone wants to save a house, then buy it. Otherwise, why is the city obligated to save the house?

I hear what you're saying about the corruption and the city not following rules...I understand that and am with you 100%. Follow the rules. Have the homes been declared "historic"? If so, then they shouldn't be touched...but if not, if no one else cares enough to buy the house or get it on a historical list, then let the city tear it down AFTER it has gone through the proper protocol.
But I don't agree with the city spending tax dollars to save old vacant houses that have been sitting there with no interest from anyone.

The city is spending MORE to demolish than it would to mothball it.  I agree that the city shouldn't be in the business of rehabbing historic houses.

And yes, this house is a CONTRIBUTING structure in a Nationally Recognized Historic District.
Well that's dumb. What is their reasoning? Do they fall back on the "it's not a safe structure" excuse? If not, what's the deal?

strider

  • Guest
Re: The Sad Saga of 439 East First Street
« Reply #40 on: May 12, 2016, 09:44:45 AM »
Here's what I don't get...people upset about houses being torn down, houses that have sat vacant for years with no attention. Obviously, no one cares except those complaining about them being torn down. maybe the whiners need to start purchasing these houses one by one and renovating/preserving them instead of letting them sit for years decaying.
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the older Victorian houses in Springfield. They are beautiful and I can see how awesome they once were and what they could be restored to be. If I won the powerball, I would buy blocks of homes in Springfield and restore them.
But if no one is buying them and they are just sitting there decaying, what good are they? How long are they expected to sit there? Until the "right" person comes along? Pffft. If the preservationists cared so much about them, then start collecting private donations and renovate them one by one and then sell them. Move on to the next one.
Stop whining and start doing.
Just my .02 worth...

I guess you haven't been paying attention.

PSOS HAS been handing over houses to those who have the resources to renovate them.  We HAVE been doing Make it Happen events to help houses before they get to the point of being "an emergency".  We HAVE been doing these things and the pages of Metro Jacksonville have our story.

However the point is NOT what the preservationists have failed to do, but rather what the city has failed to do and that is to follow its own ordinances. Ordinances which REQUIRE the protection of historic properties.

Perhaps if corruption wasn't rampant in this town, there would actually be money available for saving these old houses.

Money from where..the city? Why should the city save these houses? I don't want my tax dollars saving houses. If someone wants to save a house, then buy it. Otherwise, why is the city obligated to save the house?

I hear what you're saying about the corruption and the city not following rules...I understand that and am with you 100%. Follow the rules. Have the homes been declared "historic"? If so, then they shouldn't be touched...but if not, if no one else cares enough to buy the house or get it on a historical list, then let the city tear it down AFTER it has gone through the proper protocol.
But I don't agree with the city spending tax dollars to save old vacant houses that have been sitting there with no interest from anyone.

The city is spending MORE to demolish than it would to mothball it.  I agree that the city shouldn't be in the business of rehabbing historic houses.

And yes, this house is a CONTRIBUTING structure in a Nationally Recognized Historic District.
Well that's dumb. What is their reasoning? Do they fall back on the "it's not a safe structure" excuse? If not, what's the deal?

Look at just this one set of facts.  A bid to do only the addition and stabilize the main house was $25K ish. There was also a complete demo bid at about $28K. They hired the demo contractor who they most often use (or his uncles company in which case essentially the same people do the work) for emergency demo's and I think a majority of the regular demolitions done in Jacksonville. The complete demo was done with many MCCD employees around, the added cost of an engineer to say the floor was wavy and the final cost listed on the week late permit as $50K. Even using the higher complete demo cost as a comparison, that was $22K EXTRA for the demolition. And they had to get a Lawyer to change the Final Order and the city had to break other laws to do it that way.  Where do you think all or part of the extra $22K ended up?

Gunnar

  • Guest
Re: The Sad Saga of 439 East First Street
« Reply #41 on: May 12, 2016, 04:30:12 PM »
It seems like the city should have been able to do quite some repairs to the house for $50K...

mbwright

  • Guest
Re: The Sad Saga of 439 East First Street
« Reply #42 on: May 13, 2016, 09:10:12 AM »
The problem with that scenario is that the demo guy (favored buddy) does not get work, and MCCD does not get a kick back (speculation) and an opportunity to pat themselves on the back.  Had they spent $50K on stabilization/restoration, it would have added value to the house.  Very sad that a HISTORIC neighborhood has ZERO PROTECTION, and ZERO consequences for those involved with all of these demos.  It should be criminal, but I guess you can't charge MCCD with something that would change their way of doing things.  Just imagine if this area was complete, like Savannah, Charleston, and others.  It would be a greatly improved property tax generating area.

menace1069

  • Guest
Re: The Sad Saga of 439 East First Street
« Reply #43 on: May 13, 2016, 10:56:02 AM »
The problem with that scenario is that the demo guy (favored buddy) does not get work, and MCCD does not get a kick back (speculation) and an opportunity to pat themselves on the back.  Had they spent $50K on stabilization/restoration, it would have added value to the house.  Very sad that a HISTORIC neighborhood has ZERO PROTECTION, and ZERO consequences for those involved with all of these demos.  It should be criminal, but I guess you can't charge MCCD with something that would change their way of doing things.  Just imagine if this area was complete, like Savannah, Charleston, and others.  It would be a greatly improved property tax generating area.
See, that's what I don't get about Jacksonville. We have some absolutely BEAUTIFUL Victorian homes in the Springfield area and I would think that people would be snapping them right up to restore and habitat or sell them.
I have lived in both Savannah and Charleston and it is truly awesome when people take the time to renovate or restore a historic home.