Zimmerman Found Not Guilty

[thelakelander]

^AM, why do you think those crime statistics are what you claim they are? Do you care?

The statistics might be true Lake, but there is a whole discussion waiting, as to why they are as they are.  There are definitely some structured... institutionally based social forces and habits which perpetuate the fundamental causes of those statistics.  But that's a whole discussion in itself.

It amazes me that some people seem to be blind to these fundamental forces or structures in society which maintains the statistics.  They seem to be comfortable in their ignorance.  Why gain knowledge and improve one's perception if one is comfortable in ignorance and apathy?

This is pretty much where I was going with Muffin's skewed statistical data.  There's a much bigger story out there and random numbers don't mean crap if you don't understand or care how they are being generated.

[thelakelander]

Provoked....?  There lays a pivotal thing that needs to be proven, not assumed.

It was proven that GZ stalked/followed the kid.  Maybe it's just me and the experience of growing up as a black male in a different environment that many of our readers may not be familiar with...but if someone you don't know (who clearly isn't a police officer), follows you in the dark, you're being provoked and being put in a situation where you're on the defensive.  If not, in typical circumstances, your ass is as good as mugged, jumped or whatever.

Why didn't TM call the Police himself? There seems to have been time for him to do just that. Why didn't TM run to the home he was staying at? Look overall this case is over the Jury has spoken Not Guilty!

Call the police and get mugged while on the phone? Try to run home, get shot in the ass and then mugged? Wow, there's a huge gulf of cultural and environmental ignorance in this thread.

Anyway, I agree the jury has spoken.  However, the ultimate impact of this night may just be beginning. The jury also spoke when Emmett Till was lynched in 1955.  The momentum generated from that injustice ultimately resulted in Civil Rights Movement of the 1960s. This case may have just turned TM into a martyr.

[sheclown]

Provoked....?  There lays a pivotal thing that needs to be proven, not assumed.

It was proven that GZ stalked/followed the kid.  Maybe it's just me and the experience of growing up as a black male in a different environment that many of our readers may not be familiar with...but if someone you don't know (who clearly isn't a police officer), follows you in the dark, you're being provoked and being put in a situation where you're on the defensive.  If not, in typical circumstances, your ass is as good as mugged, jumped or whatever.

Why didn't TM call the Police himself? There seems to have been time for him to do just that. Why didn't TM run to the home he was staying at? Look overall this case is over the Jury has spoken Not Guilty!

Call the police and get mugged while on the phone? Try to run home, get shot in the ass and then mugged? Wow, there's a huge gulf of cultural and environmental ignorance in this thread.

Anyway, I agree the jury has spoken.  However, the ultimate impact of this night may just be beginning. The jury also spoke when Emmett Till was lynched in 1955.  The momentum generated from that injustice ultimately resulted in Civil Rights Movement of the 1960s. This case may have just turned TM into a martyr.

Indeed.

[Apache]

Provoked....?  There lays a pivotal thing that needs to be proven, not assumed.

If I'm walking anywhere and a car slows and starts watching me and following me, I would feel provoked. Not ashamed to say I probably would be slightly scared. You never know who's out there these days.

Matter of fact a few nights ago in Riverside. A local guy was walking down Myra, a car slowed. A guy jumped out with a gun (turned out to be a bb gun) the walker pulled out a knife an stabbed the gun attacker.

If I was TM, this is what I would be thinking and would act accordingly



Bottom line, GZ thought TM was up to no good. He was wrong about that. The law may be on his side. He will go to sleep every night knowing he took a someone's life away, and even he has to realize in hindsight, he took that life because he made an inaccurate assumption. That's no easy thing to live with.

[sheclown]

http://www.sinuousmag.com/2013/07/protest-the-verdict/

[sheclown]

Provoked....?  There lays a pivotal thing that needs to be proven, not assumed.

It was proven that GZ stalked/followed the kid.  Maybe it's just me and the experience of growing up as a black male in a different environment that many of our readers may not be familiar with...but if someone you don't know (who clearly isn't a police officer), follows you in the dark, you're being provoked and being put in a situation where you're on the defensive.  If not, in typical circumstances, your ass is as good as mugged, jumped or whatever.

...and sometimes (in jacksonville) if it is a police officer -- just sayin'

[NotNow]

Just sayin' what?  You are inferring something sinister.  Just say it.

[NotNow]

This has never been a "stand your ground" case.  Martin was the only participant that could have conceivably claimed "stand your ground".  Zimmerman's case rested on self defense.  He had to prove that he was in a place that he was legally able to be, and feared for his life or serious injury.

Without dragging though pages of BS arguments, I'll just state my thoughts.  The gun didn't cause this.  The right to self defense (a concept of citizenry that goes back literally hundreds of years)  is not at fault.  The feds will never (I hope) be allowed to disregard the United States Constitution.  While Muffin's stat's are true and he makes a point in the larger sense, I don't think it allows for the actions followed by Mr. Zimmerman. I agree that this case is a tragic story that has been used by several different camps to set their own agenda.  I will continue to pay no attention to unattributed character assassination of either Mr. Zimmerman or Mr. Martin.  Such behavior is worse than the assigned "racism" charges from all sides. 

Like Lake, I have not followed the day to day testimony, so I am not as familiar with the specifics as some of you may be.  It seems that the likely crime was always "manslaughter" based on what evidence was available.  Mr. Zimmerman's pursuit of Mr. Martin was negligent in its initiation and its length.  I am not aware of how this was presented in trial.  The jury has answered and we now all have to live with the verdict.  I can name literally hundreds of verdicts that I did not agree with in addition to this one.  The Martin family will have their civil trial. 

I see that the personal insults continue to fly in this forum.  No civil discussion can be had when posters ideas are not discussed, but instead personal insults and demeaning attacks are thrown at them.  We should be able to analyze this case in an intelligent manner and exchange our opinions without malice.  But, as usual, that appears to be impossible here.  I am sorry for the Martin family.  I am sorry that Mr. Zimmerman will live the rest of his life with this stigma.  I wish that I could say something positive had come out of this, but I don't see it as of yet.

[NotNow]

Just sayin' what?  You are inferring something sinister.  Just say it.

Kiko Battles.  Lets start there.

If you would do your usual and start another thread on the Battles incident, I would be happy to discuss it.  But I think it would be insulting to the Martin family to link Battles to their son, don't you?  Let's not do this in this thread.  Start a new one.

[JeffreyS]

Provoked....?  There lays a pivotal thing that needs to be proven, not assumed. 

Well Zimmerman said in the 911 call "He's running" . So Zimmerman knows definitively that TM's fight or flight instinct has taken effect and the TM has chosen to avoid conflict. However unsatisfied with just terrifying the young man  Zimmerman chooses to stay in pursuit. I think we can assume provocation proven.

[JeffreyS]

Don't get your hopes up Stephen. That is just some CYA on the Justice departments part.

[comncense]

From 2007... http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/23/nyregion/23trial.html?_r=3&

[sheclown]

Just sayin' what?  You are inferring something sinister.  Just say it.

Kiko Battles.  Lets start there.

If you would do your usual and start another thread on the Battles incident, I would be happy to discuss it.  But I think it would be insulting to the Martin family to link Battles to their son, don't you?  Let's not do this in this thread.  Start a new one.

Not Now, I've missed you.  I was hoping I'd see you in the stalking thread.

That being said, I'll do as I please, of course.

[sheclown]

Appeals for calm in the wake of such a verdict raise the question of what calm there can possibly be in a place where such a verdict is possible. Parents of black boys are not likely to feel calm. Partners of black men are not likely to feel calm. Children with black fathers are not likely to feel calm. Those who now fear violent social disorder must ask themselves whose interests are served by a violent social order in which young black men can be thus slain and discarded.

There's no calm to be had in this. 

[sheclown]