Zimmerman Found Not Guilty

[Cheshire Cat]

Zimmerman may be legally free but he will never experience freedom the way he once knew it.  He will now always feel the way Trayvon did, threatened, scared and pursued.  He will live a life in the shadow of his actions and be looking over his shoulder everywhere he goes likely for the rest of his life.  In some way he will now be made to walk in Trayvon's shoes and see first hand what it is like to be viewed with distrust and suspicion.

[Cheshire Cat]

Maybe Al Sharpton should focus a little bit of his time addressing the black and black violence with demonstrations in places like Chicago instead of the 100% effort in bringing down the big bad Purple People Eater George Zimmerman; Although that Trayvon case brought alot of loot to MSNBC, so who can blame him....

Al Sharpton is a side issue to this trial as is Black on Black crime.  This trial was about Trayvon's death and the fact that Zimmerman was charged with his murder.  As a side note it is important to realize that there are many ongoing efforts via churches and organizations that are aimed at understanding and stopping Black on Black crime.  MADDADS here in Jacksonville has been at the forefront of that issue for many years now.   

[thelakelander]

I'm no attorney but manslaughter appears pretty evident to me. At the end of the day, a kid was killed and the instigator/shooter gets off. Nevertheless, I don't think this situation is over. Things are just beginning and hopefully, the result is a positive one for all that saves lives.

Lets say TM would have found GZ's gun and shot GZ could TM have used this same defense that GZ was found Not Guilty with?

Why go there? Let's say GZ never followed TM. No conflict or death happens and everyone goes on with their lives.

[I-10east]

^^^You don't have to agree with what GZ did, but technically he wasn't breaking the law. All of the 911 dispatcher non-order, should've stayed in the car, and did he indirectly follow him arguments is irrelevant IMO. No one wants to address the actual felony assault by Martin which is ludicrous. A six year old kid could follow you from behind; Whatcha gonna do, blast him in the face? I bet that he wasn't all that close to Martin either. Not to mention the 4 minute time frame that Martin should've been home already.

[Cheshire Cat]

Zimmerman may be legally free but he will never experience freedom the way he once knew it.  He will now always feel the way Trayvon did, threatened, scared and pursued.  He will live a life in the shadow of his actions and be looking over his shoulder everywhere he goes likely for the rest of his life.  In some way he will now be made to walk in Trayvon's shoes and see first hand what it is like to be viewed with distrust and suspicion.

Cheshire Cat you are so sure of George Zimmerman's Guilt? I heard the 911 tape when the mothers of both GZ and TM said it was their Son? And we really don't know what TM felt do we? Because if the State of Florida would have put on a better case then GZ would be in jail today? I'm sorry what happen to both TM & GZ but you nor I was there Jesus! God forbid if GZ is killed by someone over the next year will you cry for GZ? Or will you think Justice for TM has been served? 

How do you get I am sure of GZ's guilt from what I said?  There has never been a debate about the fact that Zimmerman shot Trayvon and that shot is what took Trayvon's life.  Regardless of what Zimmerman was feeling when he shot Trayvon, anger or fear, he will carry the burden of having pulled that trigger for the rest of his life.  Zimmermans brother has already publicly spoken to the fact that his older brother has been deeply changed by this experience.  He is now somber, afraid and worried for his own life and that of his family. What I am sure about is the fact that if Zimmerman had stayed in his car and let the police do their job, Trayvon would still be alive.  So in that way, his lousy choice is what put him in a place where a confrontation occurred.  There is no getting away from that fact.

[Seraphs]

My Mother a wise old gal often said, 'None is so blind as one who WILL NOT SEE.'  These people know what is going on they just refuse to see truth.  The fight between Trayvon and Zimmerman didn't start on the ground it started when Zimmerman decided to follow him, because he was a black young man.  That trash Ock was talking is just that trash.  Every attorney who spoke last night made a point to say they respected the Jury's verdict well I don't.  I may not be able to change it but I know because of Zimmerman's decision a young man is dead.

When I was a younger black man I was profiled all the time.  Driving my own car, with no warrants, police would stop me with guns drawn.  I had a friend, white, who lived on Seminole Road in Atlantic Beach.  Almost every time I took him home I was stopped by police even parked in his driveway.  My friend couldn't believe this he even told one police officer to get out of his yard.  I use to be Trayvon.  The bottom line is this, GEORGE ZIMMERMAN HAD NO RIGHT TO FOLLOW THIS KID.  END OF F ING SUBJECT.

[Cheshire Cat]

^^^You don't have to agree with what GZ did, but technically he wasn't breaking the law. All of the 911 dispatcher non-order, should've stayed in the car, and did he indirectly follow him arguments is irrelevant IMO. No one wants to address the actual felony assault by Martin which is ludicrous. A six year old kid could follow you from behind; Whatcha gonna do, blast him in the face? I bet that he wasn't all that close to Martin either. Not to mention the 4 minute time frame that Martin should've been home already.

Did you watch the trial?  A very large part of the testimony both civilian and professional revolved around the physical altercation between Trayvon and Zimmerman.  So to say no one want's to talk about it is patently false.  In fact it was the altercation that led to discussion of Zimmerman's state of mind when he shot Trayvon.  The jury concluded that there was reasonable doubt that Zimmerman shot because of malice but rather because at that moment he was afraid.  That is what led to the "not guilty verdict".

[AngryMuffin]

My opinion - no factual crime stats. The majority of the problem is with the disproportionate number of absent fathers. The lack of a strong upstanding male role model to keep young men on track when they stray.  I think there is also an undercurrent of respect for thug life where life doesn't appear to have much value and education has even less value.

Contrast that with Asian and Indian immigrants who value raising their kids and put a huge emphasis on education.  They also stick together and help each other as a tight community.  They put an emphasis on using the English language correctly - that is huge.  It's the language of business and if you can't speak it, read it and write it you're going to be left out.

Basically I believe the same stuff that Bill Cosby got into trouble for saying.

What do you think is causing it? Maybe you have a different point of view?

^AM, why do you think those crime statistics are what you claim they are? Do you care?

[Cheshire Cat]

My Mother a wise old gal often said, 'None is so blind as one who WILL NOT SEE.'  These people know what is going on they just refuse to see truth.  The fight between Travon and Zimmerman didn't start on the ground it started when Zimmerman decided to follow him, because he was a black young man.  That trash Ock was talking is just that trash.  Every attorney who spoke last night made a point to say they respected the Jury's verdict well I don't.  I may not be able to change it but I know because of Zimmerman's decision a young man is dead.

When I was a younger black man I was profiled all the time.  Driving my own car, with no warrants, police would stop me with guns drawn.  I had a friend, white, who lived on Seminole Road in Atlantic Beach.  Almost every time I took him home I was stopped by police even parked in his driveway.  My friend couldn't believe this he even told one police officer to get out of his yard.  I use to be Travon.  The bottom line is this, GEORGE ZIMMERMAN HAD NO RIGHT TO FOLLOW THIS KID.  END OF F ING SUBJECT.

I hear you loud and clear.  Again, everyone understands that Zimmerman chose to follow Trayvon and that led to his death. No one is arguing that.  But your response has emotion overriding what the law actually is.  As stupid as it was for Zimmerman to follow Trayvon, he was not breaking the law.  That's simply the facts and there are many individuals who have been stalked over extensive periods of time, even years and the laws as written make stopping stalking difficult.  It has to do with the right to move freely, which was sadly denied Trayvon by Zimmerman, but freedom of movement is a closely held American value.  So when we say no one has a right to follow we are talking about basic freedoms.  Of course people can demand that the laws be changed to prevent people from following each other, but are we ready for a world in which someone who is paranoid can accuse another of following them and that person be thrown into a legal battle for their own freedom because we created yet another law that would be impossible to enforce fairly?  This type of legislation cuts both ways.  On another note, no need to use hyphenated vulgarities to make your point Seraph.  I think most understand your position and agree with it.  But what to do to change things is not a story that has ended but one that is just beginning.

[thelakelander]

^^^You don't have to agree with what GZ did, but technically he wasn't breaking the law. All of the 911 dispatcher non-order, should've stayed in the car, and did he indirectly follow him arguments is irrelevant IMO. No one wants to address the actual felony assault by Martin which is ludicrous. A six year old kid could follow you from behind; Whatcha gonna do, blast him in the face? I bet that he wasn't all that close to Martin either. Not to mention the 4 minute time frame that Martin should've been home already.

For no one to have witnessed the start of the physical altercation, you're making a huge assumption. All we have is GZ's side of the story because his victim isn't alive to share his. So I'm not sure one can say TM was breaking the law in defending himself. All I do know is that if the kid isn't followed, no altercation happens.

[thelakelander]

AM, how do your stats break down along economic levels?

[AngryMuffin]

I didn't skew anything.  I took the data from the 2011 FBI crime stats and the 2010 USA census. 

If you look at the FBI numbers there is a huge murder bubble for black males between 18 and 30 that blows everything else out of the water.  As black males get past the age of 30 they seem to calm down.

If you look at the NYC numbers they are even worse for black people than the national numbers.  In rough numbers black people murder at a rate in the range of 15 to 1 vs white people.  And mostly it's black people killing other black people. Why isn't Sharpton and Jesse Jackson marching for this? This is the biggest threat to black people right now.

Anyone looking at this would have to come to the conclusion that there is a problem here that needs to be addressed.

^AM, why do you think those crime statistics are what you claim they are? Do you care?

The statistics might be true Lake, but there is a whole discussion waiting, as to why they are as they are.  There are definitely some structured... institutionally based social forces and habits which perpetuate the fundamental causes of those statistics.  But that's a whole discussion in itself.

It amazes me that some people seem to be blind to these fundamental forces or structures in society which maintains the statistics.  They seem to be comfortable in their ignorance.  Why gain knowledge and improve one's perception if one is comfortable in ignorance and apathy?

This is pretty much where I was going with Muffin's skewed statistical data.  There's a much bigger story out there and random numbers don't mean crap if you don't understand or care how they are being generated.

[Cheshire Cat]

My opinion - no factual crime stats. The majority of the problem is with the disproportionate number of absent fathers. The lack of a strong upstanding male role model to keep young men on track when they stray.  I think there is also an undercurrent of respect for thug life where life doesn't appear to have much value and education has even less value.

Contrast that with Asian and Indian immigrants who value raising their kids and put a huge emphasis on education.  They also stick together and help each other as a tight community.  They put an emphasis on using the English language correctly - that is huge.  It's the language of business and if you can't speak it, read it and write it you're going to be left out.

Basically I believe the same stuff that Bill Cosby got into trouble for saying.

What do you think is causing it? Maybe you have a different point of view?

^AM, why do you think those crime statistics are what you claim they are? Do you care?

I don't know if we can say "the majority" of the problem is absent fathers although it is pretty much understood that a positive father figure in the life of any young man is a good thing.  Broken families unfortunately is an issue for families of all racial backgrounds with a divorce rate of over 50% of American households.

[AngryMuffin]

This is the first rational thing I've seen you post.

Here is the thing white poor people don't kill each other at the rate that black poor people kill each other. Look it up.  Thats the great thing about the Internet all of this information is out there ready to enlighten you if you just take the time to access it.

My stats came directly from the FBI website and the 2010 US census.  They aren't psudo-anything.  They are facts.

Say my numbers are skewed how do you explain the NYC black vs white murder rate?  National is 7 to 1.  NYC is 15 to 1. Just go to Google and type in "NYC black murder rate" and you will be enlightened.

This is what makes no sense to me about people like you.  You get outraged by this one case while you completely ignore the dozen black kids that killed each other on the South side of Chicago this past week. That is the travesty here.  Thats what we all need to be outraged about.  Not this one case.  Hundreds of black people are going to kill hundreds of other black people this year in just one city.  But you focus on this case missing the bigger picture.

not to mention how drastically the numbers change when you view them through different lenses.

For example.  The statistics also show that more poor people are convicted murderers than wealthy people.  By serious margins so large that they make the racial differences seem insignificant.

And if you add in the true number of killers, vs 'murderers' at least by gun violence the racial numbers get very lopsided.  Of course such a count includes shootings by policemen, and no one ever seems to want to mention that.

But of course, in this case, a murderer is found not guilty, and so he will only be a 'killer' and not included in muffin tops absurd psuedo statistics.

[Cheshire Cat]

This is the first rational thing I've seen you post.

Here is the thing white poor people don't kill each other at the rate that black poor people kill each other. Look it up.  Thats the great thing about the Internet all of this information is out there ready to enlighten you if you just take the time to access it.

My stats came directly from the FBI website and the 2010 US census.  They aren't psudo-anything.  They are facts.

Say my numbers are skewed how do you explain the NYC black vs white murder rate?  National is 7 to 1.  NYC is 15 to 1. Just go to Google and type in "NYC black murder rate" and you will be enlightened.

This is what makes no sense to me about people like you.  You get outraged by this one case while you completely ignore the dozen black kids that killed each other on the South side of Chicago this past week. That is the travesty here.  Thats what we all need to be outraged about.  Not this one case.  Hundreds of black people are going to kill hundreds of other black people this year in just one city.  But you focus on this case missing the bigger picture.

not to mention how drastically the numbers change when you view them through different lenses.

For example.  The statistics also show that more poor people are convicted murderers than wealthy people.  By serious margins so large that they make the racial differences seem insignificant.

And if you add in the true number of killers, vs 'murderers' at least by gun violence the racial numbers get very lopsided.  Of course such a count includes shootings by policemen, and no one ever seems to want to mention that.

But of course, in this case, a murderer is found not guilty, and so he will only be a 'killer' and not included in muffin tops absurd psuedo statistics.

Perhaps you can make your points without the "people like you" statement?  There are very few people who are like yourself in individual thought and action and that's okay.  We are all different as are our life experiences.