Poll

Should an amendment be attached to 2010-604 that would keep the 680' Public Pier separate from the 44 acres that was Shipyards/Landmar?

Yes
44 (91.7%)
No
4 (8.3%)

Total Members Voted: 6

Voting closed: August 11, 2010, 04:18:46 PM

Author Topic: Downtown Jacksonville Public Pier  (Read 65027 times)

Noone

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Re: Downtown Jacksonville Public Pier
« Reply #285 on: December 14, 2011, 07:13:54 AM »
$20million?!?!

That is so false it's not even laughable.


MJ'ers has anyone tried to contact anybody about this issue? In 5 days this final FIND list goes to the Jacksonville Waterways Commission for approval then on to the full city council and then to the Commissioners of FIND representing the east coast of the state of Florida.

3 years ago I attended a meeting in Duval county with the Commissioners of FIND with this one question. If private money was raised for a pocket pier floating dock at a waterfront Public Access street end would the commissioners of FIND match the other half of the construction cost? The answer was yes. You need a sponsor. (a city councilman)

So 3 years later is a Public process that is still in the process and that is the special FIND subcommittee that is looking at canoe and kayak launches for Duval county. So can you imagine the monumental embarrassment to go back to the commissioners of FIND and share with them what is not on the list.

So Field, and anyone else if your game and I'm serious. The commissioners of FIND are awesome. Other Commissioners of FIND have informed me that they are working on Pocket Piers in their districts. So can you imagine this Public/Private Partnership where we raise and I don't care if its just a $100 we then present it to another county so that their residents will have access to the intracoastal Waterway or the St. Johns River our American Heritage River a Federal Initiative. 



Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting in 2 1/2 hours. City council members. Wake Up. You may still be able to add a project to the upcoming FIND list.

Be concerned.
Keep score.
Public/Private Partnership.

Who wants to be a 501-c?

Noone

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Re: Downtown Jacksonville Public Pier
« Reply #286 on: December 31, 2011, 02:57:22 PM »
Today making a scene on a  Downtown Urban Waterway Destination on the last day of 2011 was CG7 and I. Another shoutout and we are both more convinced then ever that it KHAN Happen. Downtown can be a Destination and it requires legislation.

We put in at the new kayak launch logo at RCB at 8am. Beautiful conditions outgoing tide. My kayak is loaded like my van. I'm ready for everything. New hip waders for Hogans or McCoys. Have the clippers and dragging rake. Brought some fishing poles and gear. And of coarse our Visit Jacksonville sign.

Craig wants to catch the activities that are happening Downtown and we made our way toward the Landing. There were already a number of skullers on the water and they were dotting numerous spots on the river. With the outgoing tide and heading toward Hogans Creek and the Maxwell House plant you don't even have to paddle. We crossed the river and given the low tide conditions and they were low. A visible mud flat at RCB just reinforced how low it was. So with great conditions we decided to take it under the Hyatt parking lot and  we just had a blast. We entered at the first entrance and took it all the way to the back. coming back out we decided to follow the proverbial lights at the end of the tunnel that takes you under the street all the way to the docks at Berkman. We explored spots east and west and north and south.

After emerging from the caverns of the pilings we were then immediately staring at the Historic Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier. Not one boat was at Berkman. We glided through the pilings of the piers and continued on to Hogans. Still low tides and the mud flats are exposed. We both commented on how clean the creek looked. Still some debris but not the highly concentrated amounts. Saw the shopping cart depth meter chart in a distance and we just didn't paddle that far up.

Instead we decided to take it back toward Downtown. Still an outgoing tide. Now for the first time we are doing some serious paddling. We take it to the floating dock at Berkman. CG7 gets out of his kayak just before some big waves came rolling in from the boat that was booking it. You immediately recognize that a moment earlier and that would not have been safe. Craig had gotten out to see if this had been posted for a kayak location. It hadn't.

So with an outgoing tide and still a ways to go Craig suggests that we take it back under the street again. What a great idea. So going with the tide we go back under the street by the docks at Berkman. I brought the fishing poles and wanted to give it a shot. So next to some pilings I throw out a jig with a dead shrimp and I catch a nice blue crab. Time to try another spot.

So Craig and I take it farther in and this time we try an area that has penetrating light from above. This time on a shrimp I catch an eel. Time to move again. This time we have made it back to another vast area of penetrating light with voices above us continually changing as people are walking by. This time I catch a catfish.

The water level underneath has risen quite considerably. CG7 and I discuss a bunch of what ifs. He has a time crunch and takes it back. I wanted to try another spot or two. After about a 1/2 hour no luck and the river traffic picking up quite a bit it was time to take it back as well.

Jacksonville city council meeting in 10 days. Waterways in 11 days.  2011-578 was on the agenda at the last Waterways meeting and Drew Dixon with the TU wrote about it. The Historic Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier needs to be on the FIND list. Stonewall and Chelsea St. McCoys Creek is a true Public/Private Partnership with councilman Warren Jones and the Commissioners of FIND. Mayor Brown, Please lead the way on this one as well.

CG7 is excited about Downtown as am I. Legislation needs to happen immediately so we will all be able to say "VISIT JACKSONVILLE."

Noone

  • Guest
Re: Downtown Jacksonville Public Pier
« Reply #287 on: January 09, 2012, 07:38:03 AM »
Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting in two days. The Public Trust in this community continues to be absolutely obliterated and destroyed. After 3 years (3 YEARS!), still don't have one sponsor (city council member) to take to the commissioners of FIND (Florida Inland Navigation District)

Legislative session starts tomorrow.  Who's ready to paddle condom creek?

Shipyards III. We are a joke!

VISIT JACKSONVILLE
         or
DON'T VISIT JACKSONVILLE

We'll all know how to advertise our city very shortly.
 

mbwright

  • Guest
Re: Downtown Jacksonville Public Pier
« Reply #288 on: January 09, 2012, 08:37:06 AM »
Ther must ba a way around to get this on the FIND list.  Obviously Redman does not care about this issue, citizens in his district, nor the future of Jacksonville.  Really sad.

Noone

  • Guest
Re: Downtown Jacksonville Public Pier
« Reply #289 on: January 10, 2012, 05:29:04 AM »
Ther must ba a way around to get this on the FIND list.  Obviously Redman does not care about this issue, citizens in his district, nor the future of Jacksonville.  Really sad.

There are numerous ways to get this on the FIND list. Unfortunately my District representative is leading the conspiracy to deny not only the people of Jacksonville but the people of the state of Florida to Public Access and economic opportunity to our St. Johns River our American Heritage River borders on criminal.

City council meeting tonight. Waterways tomorrow. And then it will be time to elevate this issue throughout the state of Florida. The Public Trust just crushed in this community.

On a positive note I did attend for the first time the Urban Core CPAC meeting last night in the Ed Ball building and was just delighted in the turnout and the direction of concerns that others have in moving our city forward. Christina Parrish is the chair and I did have an opportunity to speak. I didn't mention the pier. But there was talk and discussion of Mayor Brown's recent kayak initiative. Good stuff especially for Downtown and you can't stress the importance of these safe zones that need to immediately come online to make kayaking safe and fun for Downtown.

It was mentioned that councilman Redman still has legislative oversight on some areas of the core. As well as Jones and Gaffney.

Other topics were discussed and Preservation was on there. I have a gut feeling that this CPAC Khan Make It Happen.

 

fieldafm

  • Guest
Re: Downtown Jacksonville Public Pier
« Reply #290 on: January 10, 2012, 08:26:57 AM »
$20million?!?!

That is so false it's not even laughable.

John, can you please forward me that email?

BTW, while researching something else... discovered Trout River Bridge Fishing Pier was only about 8% of this 20 million dollar pricetag.  The Fuller Warren study quoted a price that was less than half of this 20 million dollar pricetag(and most of that was for a parking lot, right of way access and stormwater runoff-all not problems in the Shipyards case).  As was the Nassau Sound Fishing Pier.... and the Sunshine Skyway Fishing Piers cost about as much as this 'supposed' $20 million pricetag, and that includes nearly 3 miles of fishing space.

Noone

  • Guest
Re: Downtown Jacksonville Public Pier
« Reply #291 on: January 11, 2012, 05:49:41 AM »
^Great information. Waterways meeting in 3 1/2 hours. Anyone going?

Eveyone see the Times Union 1/10/12 front page story "Fishing Limits set for all species"?

SHIPYARDS III- "Downtown Jacksonville Public Pier limits access for all."

Has anyone done a site inspection of Stonewall St. and Chelsea St. Brooklyn.?
Palms Fish Camp -Who's getting fired? Who's getting the promotion?

Daniel O'Byrne with Visit Jacksonville is leaving? The new guy.  Anyone no why?


 

north miami

  • Guest
Re: Downtown Jacksonville Public Pier
« Reply #292 on: January 11, 2012, 06:32:46 AM »

Great,and often effective to have passion for a project.....best coupled with discernment,insight.....and don't wear out welcome.

The final decided use of the Shipyards parcel probably a key driver,FIND involvement at this time premature,if in fact not tolerated.

What do FIND representatives have to say about the Pier? That is all we need to hear next.


Noone

  • Guest
Re: Downtown Jacksonville Public Pier
« Reply #293 on: January 12, 2012, 04:32:22 AM »


This type of (inexpensive and earth friendly as it uses recycled tires) launch can be EASILY affixed to the pier.

More from Noone...



What another Regional, Statewide, backyard meeting of the Jacksonville Waterways Commission.

Going from the minutes from the Dec.14 2011 meeting in attendance Council members Don Redman (Chair) John Crescimbeni (Vice Chair) Bill Bishop; Commissioners Gary Anderson,Lane Burnett, Edward Fleming, Ralph Hodges, Raymond Pringle, Scott Shine, Penny Thompson, Commissioner Stephen Swann was excused. Kristina Nelson OGC Dr. White and Dr. Pinto with Jacksonville University, Jim Suber, Waterways Coordinator COJ, Jessica Stephens, Jody McDaniel,Capt. Mike Getchall, Geoffrey Sample, Derek Busby, Dave Roman, Tom Ingram, Scott Wilson, Joseph Wilhelm, Andrea Conover, Roger Bump, Craig Van Brocklin, John Nooney, Cyd Hoskinson, Karl Soderholm, Mathew Rini, Chris DeVries, Ryan Barber, Katy Pilato, Sadie Frederick, Matt Foster, Keith Keller, Steven Davis, Barton Issac, Patrick Osleby, Robert Benardo, Chelsi P. Henry, Sgt. Leonard Propper, Officer Bob Winslow, John Jackson

At yesterdays Waterways meeting I was proudly wearing Mayor Brown's kayak adventures t-shirt. I applaud Mayor Brown and his efforts to make Downtown a Destination and not a pass through especially as it relates to our River.

It was a light agenda. What peeked my interest was item III

Living Shoreline Project-Jacksonville Zoo               Danielle Fondren, CEO DHF Consulting, Inc.
                                                                          Bob Chabot, Director of Horticulture, Jacksonville Zoo

Its a restoration project to restore spartina grass along an impacted area of the zoo and they were seeking a resolution of support from the city of Jacksonville so as to include it in a grant application that is due in Feb.

It was a good presentation and my immediate thought is sign me up. And at the same time I'm thinking to myself Shoreline restoration. You need to go and look at Stonewall and Chelsea St. on McCoys Creek and Sydney Gefen Park on the Northbank Riverwalk. They have a meeting Friday and are seeking in kind donations that could adversely affect the $350,000 project cost that is being floated at this time. Also a 1/3 of the cost is for a walkway.

I mentioned after the meeting to Dave Roman look at Sydney Gefin Park for restoring some grass there. Why not. After listening to that presentation and the conditions for habitat renewal and Mayor Brown wanting to expand on the Public/Private Partnership (Still trying to understand what that means) but would the new Downtown Authority allow this to happen here? Put up a bike rack at this park and the community can be a Downtown Partner and those that are close by can ride there bikes to this location. Our Downtown is Bulkheaded in so many locations but not here. Just a thought.

I don't think that Trads or Jones Hall carries this type of grass. So just where does one go to get a tray of spartina grass?

Anyway on with other revelations from yesterdays Waterways meeting. Let me share this with everyone from the minutes. In Old Business Commissioner Gary Anderson suggested that attorney Tom Ingram's proposed list potential new sites for kayak launch facilities on City-owned property merited review for Florida Inland Navigation District (FIND) consideration.
Congratulations to Tom. 

The real excitement of the meeting came during Public Comments. The chair had recognized outgoing St. Johns Riverkeeper Neil Armingeon and new incoming St. Johns Riverkeeper Lisa Rinamon earlier so they waved their opportunity to speak again. I'm up next. I shared with the commission the Times Union front page story from Tues. paper "Fishing limits set for all species" The United States this year will become the first country to impose catch limits for every species it manages, from Alaska pollock to Caribbean conch. I'm a member of the Recreational Fishing Alliance and there is never enough time to address so many issues. MJers go and look at Stonewall and Chelsea St. and then imagine going up to a podium after listening to a presentation on Shoreline Restoration just not even 30 minutes ago.

Also speaking and members of the Recreational Fishing Alliance were Capt Roger Bump and Capt. Vic Tison. There comments and concerns sparked dialogue among commission members and as a result of there participation the artificial reef program will be on the agenda at the next Jacksonville Waterways meeting. Dana Morton will be participating with that.

Public Comment is the last item on the agenda. After the meeting standing around and talking were Scott Shine, Roger Bump, Gary Anderson, Don Redman, Vic Tison, Mike Getchall, Someone from the Coast Guard, and myself. Anyway Don excuses himself as I and I asked Don if he is going to introduce anything with the Historic Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier. Even the first 25 or 50' for a kayak launch that you see in the pictures and it was a flat out NO. Don if you are going to kayak safely Downtown you need safety zones. Shipyards III.

Outside I had an opportunity to talk with Lisa Rinamon about the pier as well. Remember Peyton didn't want it and she said that she will look at the issue as well. She kayaks. If you are going to kayak safely Downtown you need safety zones.
Its different to be up close and personal if you fall out in a creek as compared to an open river with a stong current. 

Anyone else ready to continue to promote, preserve, access, and celebrate a Downtown Destination River Activity on our St. Johns River our American Heritage River a Federal Initiative with a kayak paddle?

Who's next?
       
« Last Edit: January 12, 2012, 04:47:06 AM by Noone »

Noone

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Re: Downtown Jacksonville Public Pier
« Reply #294 on: January 16, 2012, 02:56:20 AM »
Another update to last weeks Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting. There was not a FIND update report on the agenda and I don't recall seeing Jody McDaniel there. If she was I then apologize. The Public Trust just being totally, totally crushed in this community.

So just what is the final FIND list for this year?

Here is a clue! Its still being formalized!  WAKE UP JACKSONVILLE!

Attended a gathering of the commissioners of FIND  ( Florida Inland Navigation District) last week in St. Johns county. Saw Lad Daniels, former Jacksonville city councilman and now the chair of the Governing Board of the St. Johns River Water Management District. Had a nice conversation about some past and future legislative pieces of legislation.

The Historic Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier can still be put on the FIND list.

THAT IS A FACT.

VISIT JACKSONVILLE
         or
DON'T VISIT JACKSONVILLE

Visit St. Johns County--You are going to love what they are doing with their Pier. 

fieldafm

  • Guest
Re: Downtown Jacksonville Public Pier
« Reply #295 on: January 17, 2012, 03:26:05 PM »
$20million?!?!

That is so false it's not even laughable.

John, can you please forward me that email?

Still waiting on this email which itemizes this phantom $20million price tag.

Here are some real numbers:

Total allocation of cost for the Southbank Riverwalk Renovations= $17,567,322.
The concepts have been posted here on MJ before.  If you can do all those things(including all the concrete and bulkhead work needed to replace all the wood from the Southbank Riverwalk) for $17mm, then a $20million pier must include some kind of space shuttle launch pad.

Total cost of Northbank Riverwalk extension from RAM to Memorial Park= $ 37,208,014.

Total cost of Riverwalk repairs along Coastline Drive(where piers and bulkheads had sunk and/or collapsed= $3,700,000

thelakelander

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Re: Downtown Jacksonville Public Pier
« Reply #296 on: January 17, 2012, 03:32:51 PM »
Landmar's pier, including the ship like structure, was said to cost $3.5 million:

Quote
Jacksonville: LandMar launches Shipyards plan




The downtown pier would also feature a waterfall, grassy areas and trees.

Jacksonville's LandMar Group LLC unveiled a rendering of an arch with a 100-foot-high mast that would be at the end of a 680-foot existing pier on the St. Johns River as part of the public portion of LandMar's redevelopment plans for the downtown Shipyards project. The pier would also feature a waterfall, grassy areas and trees. LandMar President and

Chief Executive Officer Ed Burr said Wednesday that the pier would be "a place where the people of Jacksonville could get on the river, not just along the river." The plan calls for a circular public park along the river near the mouth of Hogan's Creek with a theme inspired by a Timuquan Indian village. LandMar is scheduled to present its Shipyards plans at today's Jacksonville Economic Development Commission meeting. The pier project is expected to cost $3.5 million.

Christopher Calnan/The Times-Union

This story can be found on Jacksonville.com at http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/031005/bus_18175976.shtml.

tufsu1

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Re: Downtown Jacksonville Public Pier
« Reply #297 on: January 17, 2012, 03:47:00 PM »

fieldafm

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Re: Downtown Jacksonville Public Pier
« Reply #298 on: January 17, 2012, 04:02:22 PM »
Assuming the pier is structurally sound.. I'm no engineer nor diver, but I see no signs of structural defficiencies and I am assuming the engineer for Landmar must have issued a similar opinion... based on an examination of Public Works' line items, you can calculate a simple fishing pier that would mimic the amenities along the Northbank Riverwalk for under $1mm.  The thing I don't know is what it would cost to extend the bullkhead the 4 feet to connect the pier to the existing shoreline.  Just having a general idea of how much that would cost to backfill a section of an existing concrete building... I can't imagine it would be very much money. 

north miami

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Re: Downtown Jacksonville Public Pier
« Reply #299 on: January 17, 2012, 07:24:24 PM »

Could it be that the only way to 'answer' this is.......the final determined outcome,by others, of Landmar /Shipyards parcel??????