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According to the COJ website this issue will be voted on Tues. Aug 10 at the Jacksonville city council meeting. Councilmembers have said that they want to hear from people. This is an opportunity to have your vote counted and heard. The poll is only for 3 days.
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The vote on Jaxoutloud is
5-Yes
0-No
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I just sent an email to my councilman and Don Redman whose district includes this space.
I would encourage any and all of you to do the same!!
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What exactly does "keep the 680' Public Pier separate from the 44 acres that was Shipyards/Landmar" mean? Disconnect it from the riverbank creating an island?
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I just sent an email to my councilman and Don Redman whose district includes this space.
I would encourage any and all of you to do the same!!
Do you think Redman will ask for your religious affiliation.
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What exactly does "keep the 680' Public Pier separate from the 44 acres that was Shipyards/Landmar" mean? Disconnect it from the riverbank creating an island?
Meaning, as the city sells off the Shipyards property to developers, but it seperately parcels the ROW and the 680' pier adjacent to the Berkman property as a public pier... much like the pier say in Jax Beach. This would be public land allowing the public to access the river on a spectacular pier as development surrounds it on Bay Street. The cost could be low but the potential could be great.
How great would it be to have a fishing pier that offers such a spectacular promenade to view DT Jax? It would only enhance any potential developer's plans for the adjacent shipyards property.
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Checked the COJ website and 2010-604 is ready for council tonight. I'l be presenting this pole to the full city council in 12 hours. Your vote will be shared with the entire legislative body.
Separating the Public Pier won't be creating an island but will create an opportunity of vibrancy for that part of the river which is within our Downtown Jacksonville Overlay Zoning District.
Thanks to all of those who have voted so far.
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Today is the council meeting.
I would encourage you all to email your council members and the at large members. It takes literally five minutes :)
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I agree the public should have use of this pier. The bill that is currently before the City Council brings the property back to the City of Jacksonville. Once we own the property we can decide the best uses. I really do not see any reason to split City property up. It will cost money to survey and rewrite legal descriptions and record new deeds. I am not against legislation that requires the pier be kept a part of the public space including the public space where I hope to see a completed Riverwalk. I do think the plan should be well thought out. We should include the Parks Dept and JEDC. We need to make sure it is safe, possibly adding guard rails or whatever else may be needed.
Scott A. Wilson
Assistant to Don Redman
Jacksonville City Council
District Four
904-630-1394
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scott........you and I discussed this last week! How are we to pay for "Safety Improvements"? Also, by having the pier property seperate, not matter what happens with the rest of the property, that portion could be utilized as it would best be used..........as in "Public Access" and the people would have use of it rather than any developers! Which would bring me to the second question...........does the City, or Councilman Redman, have any specific use in mind for the remaining acerage? A Park of some sort would be really nice, but thats me! Not really sure that JEDC should be involved since I feel that will lead to another Parking Garage or Building going in!
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One of the most famous piers in the country has a very inexpensive railing system
Here is Santa Monica's rail....
(http://home.comcast.net/~bygonebyways/66CA-Santa_Monica-Pier_Bench.jpg)
Noone has repeadetly advocated for containers that can be used as temporary storefronts... but why not a container-based public restroom facility/bait shop. UNF already has a building construction program that has students building houses from shipping containers. Would make a great opportunity for Jaxport, COJ, and UNF to work together on a public works project highlighting our claim to be 'America's Logistics Capital' that wouldnt cost a whole heck of a lot.
(http://fabrikproject.com.mx/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/lote_b_puma.jpg)
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I am not against legislation that requires the pier be kept a part of the public space including the public space where I hope to see a completed Riverwalk.
Thanks for the response.... is Mr Redman going to propose this?
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Only if it has an exit ramp for JTA!
OCKLAWAHA
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I'm trying to picture this visually. Are they place parallel to the pier? Seems kinda narrow. Are they permanent and people just show up and open shop like RAM? Please elaborate. Thanks
What would a public pier container market look like? How will they fit there?
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You can measure the pier's width on Google Earth. I can't do it right now but I believe it's about 50' wide. Anyway, container uses on the pier won't work without something complementing them on the rest of the site. Unfortunately, the pier's location is to isolated for specialty commercial uses to work on their own.
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I am not really sure just how wide a standard shipping container is lake............standard length is about 20' and I am sure that there are specialty containers that would be longer! Standard container turned on its side or even upright could not be more than 12' wide, but where there is a will, there is a way! Or just plain thinking outside of the box! Containers would be donated and surely the City can provide whatever to inplant them! Solar Power panels......composting toilets .......green spaces and pooooof! Instant commercialization and go from there!
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Okay so you could easily fit 10 of them placed parrallel with the pier on either the middle or one side since they're only 8 feet wide.
If you doubled them up back to back running down the center of the Pier that would leave 17 feet of space on EACH side for fishing, seating etc. If each was a different color that would be very interesting.
Actually, this is starting to look very much like a basic Boardwalk/Carnival or Flea Market
So...
Baitshop/Freshfish
Pizza
Burgers
Assorted Merchandise
Games win Prize (Wheel, Dart Ballons, etc.)
CARNIVAL PIER?
Not this big obviously but this kinda vibe with storefronts down middle and people on either sides.
(http://www.x-entertainment.com/articles/0907/1.jpg)
Light the new Pier up at night!!
(http://www.markandleslie.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/navy_pier_chicago.jpg)
A nice entrance feature
(http://cozybeach.com/mainepics/oldorchardbeachpier.jpg)
(http://www.doo-wopdiner.com/images/boardwalk-view2.jpg)
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Think it could be self sustaining and cost effective? It could be whatever we make of it............which is alot more than city hall seems to have on their mind other than sell......sell......develope! Maybe they have in mind "Ship Yards Two"?
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Naw! Got to keep it clear, we need "FLEX SPACE!"
OCKLAWAHA
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I thought Peyton said he wanted a Ferris Wheel ;)
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::)Nope........you misunderstood! He said he wanted the consession! ::)
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To be honest, this concept would struggle to be a success on it's own. Special attention will have to be given to the development of the surrounding context. On its own, it will have the same fate as the retail shops that once lined the Southbank Riverwalk near Charthouse.
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To be honest, this concept would struggle to be a success on it's own. Special attention will have to be given to the development of the surrounding context. On its own, it will have the same fate as the retail shops that once lined the Southbank Riverwalk near Charthouse.
I was not in favor of containers in that sense... but a unique public restroom facility, which would be required anyway for such a park. UNF does it, Jaxport has them sitting there... why not combine the resources?
The pier can't be an attraction in and of itself(not talking about recreating the St Petersburg Pier), but it offers a fantastic promenade to enjoy the river and could only further enhance the surrounding development. A simple viewing/fishing pier that connects to the riverwalk makes a lot of sense.
I have some renderings of ideas I drew up one night when I couldn't sleep... but take a look at these and use your own imaagination. There's a lot of potential IMO.
(http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/9162/picture003copy.jpg)
(http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/6975/picture017copy.jpg)
(http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/4476/picture051copy.jpg)
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Yes a pier in and of itself is fine. It makes a lot of sense and should be done as promised years ago. All I'm saying is that the carnival like atmosphere stuff won't work without the surrounding property having uses that draw heavy foot traffic to the area.
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Thanks to everyone who has participated in the poll and to Scott Wilson for posting on this forum. I called Scott today after the Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting and shared with the Commission during Public comment that this Commission should be absolutely outraged that 2010-604 was not before Waterways. Again this is Shipyards/Landmar. The Public Trust in this community is being destroyed.
At Waterways there was a piece of legislation that was before the commission. The planning dept. was at the podium. The chair of Waterways is John Cresimbeni. He is also the chair of LUZ. During Q&A John asked the Planning Dept about another piece of legislation in Mandarin that had a Waterway component and asked the planning dept why wasn't that before Waterways.
Are you ready for this. The planning Dept said that he got a call from a higher up that he didn't want it before Waterways. WOW.
The planning dept. was ready to defend his position and did so. To his credit. The other Commissioners were outraged that certain pieces of legislation are being cherry picked to be brought before Waterways.
What a lapse in ethical judgement by someone.
During Public comment I immediately shared with them another example of cherry picking legislation and that is 2010-604. It's in two Committees RCD, Finance. Its not in Waterways. It should be in Waterways at the very least for a courtesy announcement that this will be coming back. Somebody needs to apologize to Waterways.
This is another Classic, Classic, example of why the Pier needs to be separate. And according to Steve Rohan and Cindy Laquidara the city council can do it by attaching an amendment to 2010-604.
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I don't really have that "Carnival" atmosphere in mind! People oriented like say "River Walk" or something along those lines! Water taxi's could base out of there for both up and down the River............Fishing could take place, maybe even a MOSH branch oriented to kids! It needs to be oriented towards people and not business! You could go water oriented such as power boats or sailing..............teaching classes for boat handling, navigation and rules of the road! Lots more if I think about it........how about our very own water park? City Hall probably has a developer already lined up for it................we just don't know about it yet! Noone I follow your line of thought on why it needs to be seperate! I would also like to know just who, the higher up refered to,made that call? As I pointed out...........neither Gaffney nor Redman wanted the political fallout associated with trying to seperate the pier from the rest of the Ship Yards property! Something is taking place and the public is not being informed or kept up to date.............what else is new?
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Yes a pier in and of itself is fine. It makes a lot of sense and should be done as promised years ago. All I'm saying is that the carnival like atmosphere stuff won't work without the surrounding property having uses that draw heavy foot traffic to the area.
Lake you are right in that the heavy foot traffic is also needed. What I hope that people realize is that and I may be off with this but our Depts are are becoming centralized.
We now have Parks,Recreation,Entertainment and now to include Conservation. Shipyards/Landmar and its just dumb luck that we are getting it back will now focus on flex space with more special events that will generate revenue for the city. If that is the plan then OK.
The Pier and those that want to embark on the entrepreneurial spirit can be allowed to do so and then be outside of the special events guidelines that are imposed on special events and be able to operate when the heavy foot traffic isn't there.
The use of containers because we are a port city. They can be retrofitted for commercial use. Sturdy. Show up and open the door and your in business.
Types of business.
Food container.
Exercise container
Art container
Sportsmans container
Informational container.
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CS, all the stuff you describe will involve much more than setting aside the pier for public use. That's what I was getting at. What goes on the adjacent property will make or break those ideas. Just remember unlike the burbs, there is no isolated site in DT and the urban core. When planning for something, it's success or failure will rely heavily on surrounding context.
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Options are limited by imagination Noone..........lots of what could be!
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Noone, i'm not against the container idea. I just think without more comprehensive planning and implementation those containers will be empty more than in use because there won't be enough people there on an everyday basis to keep a business in them open.
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Would also like to point out...........containers down one side and alternating to the other..... many ways of going at it lake and yes I understand what your refering to as adjacent property making or breaking any idea! Maybe a straight shot from the road into the pier...........containers at the pier end? Free's up area infront of the pier for flexibility, pier to be kept seperate?
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To be honest, this concept would struggle to be a success on it's own. Special attention will have to be given to the development of the surrounding context. On its own, it will have the same fate as the retail shops that once lined the Southbank Riverwalk near Charthouse.
I was not in favor of containers in that sense... but a unique public restroom facility, which would be required anyway for such a park. UNF does it, Jaxport has them sitting there... why not combine the resources?
The pier can't be an attraction in and of itself(not talking about recreating the St Petersburg Pier), but it offers a fantastic promenade to enjoy the river and could only further enhance the surrounding development. A simple viewing/fishing pier that connects to the riverwalk makes a lot of sense.
I have some renderings of ideas I drew up one night when I couldn't sleep... but take a look at these and use your own imagination. There's a lot of potential IMO.
(http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/9162/picture003copy.jpg)
(http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/6975/picture017copy.jpg)
(http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/4476/picture051copy.jpg)
Great pics.
Also remember that this will be a huge draw from other counties. Love to see the renderings.
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To get back to the main point of this poll. After today's revelation at Waterways that certain pieces of legislation were being cherry picked for Waterways that our elected legislative representatives will keep the Promised Pier separate.
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stephen ....I can not disagree! It does need to be integrated into an overall picture! There needs to be sufficient parking (this will be interesting!) So I guess the next question should be.........whose vision will this be? City Hall's? I have seen the path the current administration is traveling and I am not waiting for the next stop to come up.....the kid has already hit the ejection handle! JEDC and DVI may have a finger in this one and they had darn sure better take heed of the public on this one! We have already lost out on millions just in developing and tax roll's and we can not afford to lose like this again! So where do I put my two cents in at?
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Naw! Got to keep it clear, we need "FLEX SPACE!"
OCKLAWAHA
How about both?
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I would ask the same thing......why not?
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Lot's of piers here. Which one are we talking about? Do they all stay? What happens to the others?
Seems like these piers might serve as a base for a large marina as well. Or tying up a cruise ship or visiting naval vessel. Maybe they would make for a great radio controlled model airplane runway :D
(http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/9162/picture003copy.jpg)
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(http://aff.bstatic.com/images/hotel/org/967/967142.jpg)(http://directrooms.com/finland/img6/hotel-picture/hotel-11058-103492.jpg)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b8/USSIndependenceInMothballs.jpg)
(http://www.tuningworld-bodensee.de/twb/fotos/keyvisuals/kv_zeppelin-bodensee.jpg)
BINGO STEPHEN! You might know that I'm pretty pumped about the new urban versions of IKEA, BASS PRO and others, but even that wouldn't really fit the mold of complimenting uses.
Revive the Quay idea, the sea port of old, the fish and crab markets, the warehouse stores, and toss in Jakes Aquarium and a Nautical Museum (with real ships) and we'd have to keep it open 24/7 as the demand would be huge.
I think tying it into the Skyway would assist it along, but more so if the Skyway station played to the tune of the old Wharf's and terminals, and entered the lobby of a metal sided upscale hotel...
GOT TO HAVE VISION AND GET OUT OF OUR BOX!
BTW, Been talking to FDOT, ZEPPELIN and a couple other interesting possibilities for elsewhere in our city.
OCKLAWAHA
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stephen.............it was called the "Ship Yards" for a reason! I understand the direction you hope to get things moving on this one and would say "Why Not"? Got alot of possibility's here and I just don't want the ball dropped this time out! Being older than the average bear gives me a viewpoint that lots of people can not relate too....that can be good as well as bad! Either way, looking forward to just what takes place......vision and imagination have been lacking to this point and it is time for a change! Ock does have some added ammo also! I am game for just about anything to this point!
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Take for example the idea of 'multi use zoning'
Its time to open up the riverfront for trade again.
Thats the whole point of using a container and the creation of jobs and vibrancy. We are a port city. 14 ports in the state of Florida. Is anyone else using a container even in a small capacity to create a buzz for the international trade that Jacksonville is a part of?
Ock and I have been perusing the records of the old city maps for how the riverfornt was used, and from the beginning, in every era of the city's development there were municipal docks, that allowed commercial usage of the riverfront.
Lake and I have discussed this for a while now as well, and one very good adaptive reuse for those docks would be to establish seafood and fresh produce markets on the riverfront again. Having been in the food business for a while, I can tell you there is no distributor for the hospitality industry anywhere near the city core, despite the hundreds of restaurants, hotels, commercial cafeterias and hospitals that are located there.
A seafood and fresh market would also provide docks that would allow the reprovisioning of small cruise and recreational craft---an unbelievably profitable industry for any town that undertakes it.
Imagine being able to get fresh shrimp in downtown jacksonville again....
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I just butchered that post. Stephen and Och, Just think of the pier as a lead in to what you are talking about which is on a bigger scale. Good ideas.
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I agree the public should have use of this pier. The bill that is currently before the City Council brings the property back to the City of Jacksonville. Once we own the property we can decide the best uses. I really do not see any reason to split City property up. It will cost money to survey and rewrite legal descriptions and record new deeds. I am not against legislation that requires the pier be kept a part of the public space including the public space where I hope to see a completed Riverwalk. I do think the plan should be well thought out. We should include the Parks Dept and JEDC. We need to make sure it is safe, possibly adding guard rails or whatever else may be needed.
Scott A. Wilson
Assistant to Don Redman
Jacksonville City Council
District Four
904-630-1394
Scott, Appreciate posting and on a side note I see where the council just introduced 2010-675 which is to bring the USS Adams to the Southbank and being that Don is a cosponsor I'm sure that you have crunched the numbers and can share with us the start up costs and who is paying for what.
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I appreciate the feedback on serious planning for the commercial use that Nooney has suggested. It would be much easier
to begin by allowing people to fish and enjoy the river. I still do not see any reason to split the property as long as the City owns it. If a developer wants to purchase the property we can split at that time. Some have suggested a convention center in that area n
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It's probably much easier to reserve it specifically for the public now then in the future when a developer comes calling with millions of dollars to dangle at the city for entire plot. Some many be afraid of a future sell out I suppose and want to prevent it from happening.
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It's probably much easier to reserve it specifically for the public now then in the future when a developer comes calling with millions of dollars to dangle at the city for entire plot. Some many be afraid of a future sell out I suppose and want to prevent it from happening.
Bingo-rjp couldn't have said it better. And that is exactly what has happened in the past with Shipyards/Landmar. An amendment can be attached at RCD Monday 8/16 then go to full council for a vote 8/24
Its the right thing to do.
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What needs to be done?
I attended the Hob Nob, didn't see Gaffney but did have an opportunity to talk with council president Webb. I shared with him the frustration that I've been having for months with the issue of the Promised Public Pier. I told him that councilman Redman is my council representative and he told me that he is going to have a noticed meeting on this. He told me to get with Scott and Don and have them contact him to set it up.
The poll vote on Jaxoutloud to keep the 680' Promised Public Pier separate was
8-Yes
0-No
and with this forum there is obviously a clear mandate.
How should this proceed?
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Why not just permanently require developers to leave the pier open to the public?? We could even require them to maintain it. Can't we just write that into any sales contract?
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Why not just permanently require developers to leave the pier open to the public?? We could even require them to maintain it. Can't we just write that into any sales contract?
The COJ isn't very good at writing contracts for itself and the taxpayers. Example? It would be easier to list the ones that were done well. The list: ......thinking.......thinking......thinking....... Well.... maybe not! :D
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Why not just permanently require developers to leave the pier open to the public?? We could even require them to maintain it. Can't we just write that into any sales contract?
B/c a financially-strapped city that is looking to unload the property could just as easily bow to a potential developer that vows to walk away from the deal if this type of language is put in the contract. This city doesnt have the best track record in that sense.
Baptist wasn't going to let the city force them to maintain access to a fishing pier off the old Fuller Warren. And we all know what happened there.
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Why not just permanently require developers to leave the pier open to the public?? We could even require them to maintain it. Can't we just write that into any sales contract?
Was just thinking.... a dangerous thing...
The CoJ has a contract with the Jags for 25% of the naming rights fee. Like a developer walking in with promises of great things, the City Council backed down when "dazzled" with a real deal. If a developer shows up for the Shipyards, they will likely back down again. Political "promises, promises" mean little.
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Assuming the property is divided, what's to stop the city from still including the pier in a deal if someone came along with cash to pay for necessary improvements?
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Why not just permanently require developers to leave the pier open to the public?? We could even require them to maintain it. Can't we just write that into any sales contract?
The COJ isn't very good at writing contracts for itself and the taxpayers. Example? It would be easier to list the ones that were done well. The list: ......thinking.......thinking......thinking....... Well.... maybe not! :D
Worth repeating,a call to action.
I have talked directly with Rick Mullaney about this-he blames the track record on City Council meddling.
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The point I am trying to make is that it should be a priority. And nothing says priority than by parceling off the pier and access to the pier to ensure public access. Forget turning an entire 44 acre waterfront site into a massive public park, the pier and entryway could be a park and part of the Jacksonville public park system(the envy of the nation right now)
COJ has been considering implementing a small corporate sponsorship plan for various public parks whereas a private corporate donor would give money/time to maintain a paticular park it sponsors. To my knowledge the main issue with this type of program being implemented is agreeing on what type of corporate signage would be permitted with such a program.
This public pier would be the ultimate test bed for such a program. Why not have a partnership b/w UNF's construction school that currently has a program that retrofits shipping containers and Jaxport. They could construct restroom facilities from shipping containers(The West end of the Northbank Riverwalk has such a facility, albeit not constructed from shipping containers), or construct the safety railing system around the pier.
Jaxport and UNF signage could be displayed signifying their role in the project. Say like a handsome granite stone at the entrance of the pier etched with Jaxport/UNF logos and a plaque detailing their involvement.
We are the self-dubbed 'logistics capital of the world', why not showcase this with such a public works project?
Maintaining a concrete pier isn't terribly hard and Jaxport/UNF could have a program like the roadway cleanup programs where say once a month volunteers could pressure wash the structure, etc.
Several municipalities have such programs. Even the National Park Service has such programs. Why not here? Why not on this endeavour? Are we not the 'Bold New City of the South'? It's time we start acting like it.
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^Good points and ideas, although our days as the "Bold New City of the South" (or anywhere else) are long gone.
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Why 'forget' about a 44 acre public park,or darn neaer close to that acreage??
A large public park concept reflects the best of our experience and forward thinking.
The public would support the concept if only we somehow manage to not forget about it.
And I agree any concept should flow from City Council,on the public stage.
Indeed the office of GC has produced a poor negotiation track record.Rick Mullaney blames this on meddling by the Council.Keep it all out front,up front.
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Why 'forget' about a 44 acre public park,or darn neaer close to that acreage??
Well for one, its a very valuable piece of land that a cash-strapped city will soon own. And secondly, there is already a 27 acre riverfront public park less than1/4 mile up the street from it. A large empty space of land really isn't the best use of our resources, wouldn't you agree?
I would encourage you to start calling/emailing your council reps. Obviously they are reading this, but not quite getting the message.
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From my viewpoint, Mr Gaffney and Company, must have something burning on the back burner and the Public Pier must be included or an amendment would have already put forth! My question has to be......why? When? I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop! Something is just not quite right here and I am starting to develope a bad feeling about this! I hope to heck........I am wrong!!
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Why 'forget' about a 44 acre public park,or darn neaer close to that acreage??
Well for one, its a very valuable piece of land that a cash-strapped city will soon own. And secondly, there is already a 27 acre riverfront public park less than1/4 mile up the street from it. A large empty space of land really isn't the best use of our resources, wouldn't you agree?
I would encourage you to start calling/emailing your council reps. Obviously they are reading this, but not quite getting the message.
Now in our 50's,my Jax native wife with deep roots in the community and I are becomming inclined to move away.For folk like us life is too short for endless unfounded anticipation.
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north miami............I can understand your frustration! Some of us have been trying for way too long!
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Assuming the property is divided, what's to stop the city from still including the pier in a deal if someone came along with cash to pay for necessary improvements?
absolutely nothing...in fact, I fully expect that the City will consider the riverfront to be public space....a riverwalk extension is the main reason the bulkhead reconstruction had to get done first.
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(http://www.jrsfilm.com/images/haight%20ashbury%20sign%20-%20full.jpg)
Now in our 50's,my Jax native wife with deep roots in the community and I are becomming inclined to move away.For folk like us life is too short for endless unfounded anticipation.
Conversely for many of us in that age bracket (and I'm going over the top) we have vague memories of standing in the street screaming our lungs out for our causes. We were so passionate then that we sometimes did that to the tune of our brothers and sisters being shot or beaten to death. For veterans of "The Peoples Park", "Haight and Ashbury," or some damn rice patty in Southeast Asia all they have done is REALLY piss us off!
http://s0.ilike.com/play#Buffalo+Springfield:For+What+It%27s+Worth:40664:s502076.10985824.14110625.0.2.67%2Cstd_54916568897849528e46f623a9c00142
There’s something happening here.
What it is ain’t exactly clear.
There’s a man with a gun over there,
Telling me I got to beware.
I think it’s time we stop, children, what’s that sound?
Everybody look what’s going down.
There’s battle lines being drawn.
Nobody’s right if everybody’s wrong.
Young people speaking their minds,
Getting so much resistance from behind.
It’s time we stop, hey, what’s that sound?
Everybody look what’s going down.
What a field day for the heat.
A thousand people in the street,
Singing songs and carrying signs,
Mostly say, “Hooray for our side.”
It’s time we stop, hey, what’s that sound?
Everybody look what’s going down.
Paranoia strikes deep:
Into your life it will creep.
It starts when you’re always afraid.
You step out of line, the man come and take you away.
GET MAD, GET EVEN, GET HAPPY, GET ER DONE, GET, GET OVER IT, GET INTO IT, GET THEIR MINDS OPEN, GET NOW... But NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, GET OUT AND GIVE UP. Never surrender, never give up!
OCKLAWAHA
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[url]http://www.naplesnew.com/news/2010/...crease-no-lay/ Wonder what you Forum members think of this?[url]
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http://www.naplesnew.com/news/2010/...crease-no-lay/ Wonder what you Forum members think of this?
Did a bit of house cleaning on that post CS, when posting a url you don't need ANY sort of bracket or code. Now for part II, WTF? what are we supposed to find at this site? All I got was a news page that says Naples, Florida, etc... Was there a particular article? If so pull up the article, then copy the ENTIRE url on the top of your page and post that. Otherwise it's like sending some newbie to MJ without a certain thread to look at, they'll be lost.
Thanks good buddy!
OCKLAWAHA
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Snapped a few more pics on my bike ride this morning. I did some very scientific measurements on the width of the pier. I wear a size 13 shoe and I counted 44 paces in length. So the pier is somewhere over 40' feet wide.
(http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/815/picture014xl.jpg)
(http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/8329/picture015zk.jpg)
(http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/6947/picture016wy.jpg)
(http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/9461/picture012d.jpg)
This is the view of the Berkman marina looking West from the pier.
(http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/2966/picture017q.jpg)
Here is where the Riverwalk ends at the Berkman property line.
(http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/4791/picture011cl.jpg)
Here you can see the work done to the bulkhead, so you can see extending the Riverwalk wouldn't be all that difficult.
(http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/8591/picture013hk.jpg)
And just for referance, this is the public restroom facility I mentioned along the Northbank Riverwalk at the foot of the Acosta Bridge.
(http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/5710/picture018my.jpg)
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On Google Earth it looks to be 50' x 685'. The other two are 40' x 400' and 50' x 590'.
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Lot's of piers here. Which one are we talking about? Do they all stay? What happens to the others?
Help the rest of us out here, please. Still waiting for an answer to the above. Thanks.
(http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/9162/picture003copy.jpg)
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Stjr, the long proposed public pier is the long one on the left. I believe Landmar had plans to take the others out and convert that area into a marina. Now that the city may be getting the property back, I assume they will all be staying for a while. Personally, I think it makes sense to keep all of them and use them for a mix of uses. For example, one could be a public pier, another a public fisherman's wharf and another a marina.
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Just sent a letter to all council members to defer 2010-604 because it didn't go to Waterways. After Tues. city council meeting the next day in Waterways it was discovered that certain pieces of legislation are being cherry picked that should be brought to Waterways.
I remember being at a Waterways meeting and the plan that Landmar had was a 150 slip marina and not one slip for the Public. They had also had negotiated to have the option to shut down the Riverwalk 12 times every year. An example would be Florida/Georgia football weekend. How wrong.
Shutting down the Riverwalk happened to my wife and I during Super Bowl XXXIX when it was closed in front of the Times Union Center. What a disaster. We needed to get back to RAM.
The Pier needs to be separate. The Sportsmans container can test the waters so to speak that could be a springboard to the fishermans wharf. Yes and open up a marina. take some small steps that will build on little successes.
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Bill passed unanimously last night. No amendments for the pier to be seperate.
It is quite obvious they want to land bank the entire site in the hopes of getting the close to 50% decline in property value since the last appraisal. The powers that be seem convinced Class A office space is the best use for this property, citing Fidelity's flirtation with the property nearly 8 years ago.
The only way that would happen would be for a Fortune 500 company to relocate here flush with cash and ready to develop the entire 44 acre site. I frankly think that's pie in the sky talk.
Currently, the only use this property is getting is as a parking lot for football games.
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The leaders of this city are so lost. They are mostly blinded by their conservative ideas and actions. They'll probably take this land deal and screw it up like they did the last time. I've been to the meetings and they prove themselves every time that they really could care less about the average citizen on this city. Most really only care about how their decisions are going to effect their friends and their pocket..I say for a change lets let the people have a public marina and fishing pier. Of course with the leadership in this state...the fish caught on that pier would probably be tainted. This city has waisted to much money it's not funny. The world is laughing at us all and our leaders keep doing the same thing...and many of you out there keep voting them back into the same positions...nothing will change for another 200 years...
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Sat.Times Union story by Matt Galnor and the 7 Mayoral candidates responses to what their plans would be for the Shipyards/Landmar property would be goes to At large Jacksonville city councilwoman Glorious Johnson and her remark that the people of Jacksonville need to never forget about the Promised Downtown Public Pier. Councilwoman Johnson has just told the People of Jacksonville that if elected Mayor there will be a Public Pier that will have Public and Private business. That's a homerun in my book.
This is a city wide city council and mayoral campaign issue. As soon as the legislation clears 2010-604 and the city has clear title there are other current council members that could introduce legislation that could make the 680' Promised Downtown Public Pier separate from the other 44 acres. Keep score.
The issue of a 680' Promised Downtown Public Pier can escalate to a statewide joke if the City of Jacksonville very quickly unless our current elected legislative representatives fail to act with legislation to keep the pier separate.
1. Sept.15,16 the River Summit and telling the other 11 counties that the current administration is opposed to this Promised Downtown Public Pier.
2. Oct. 20 the start of JCCI and their 71st Community Engagement Study (I've participated in two)
this one is called
Rcession Recovery and Beyond:
Job Creation, Employment and Improving Northeast Florida's Competitiveness
Lets see......
Job Creation....680' Promised Downtown Public Pier
We are a port city. 14 Ports in the state of Florida.
Using containers for immediate job creation and Public Access.
3. We are getting a new Executive Director for JPA.
Lets see......
We are a port city. 14 Ports in the state of Florida.
The opening of the Panama Canal for larger container ships.
Using a shipping container for tourism on a pier in the heart of our Downtown Jacksonville Overlay Zoning District could create a BUZZ if its not being done anywhere else.
We want to take the Port to the next level.
4. 4 new members on the Jacksonville Waterways Commission and one of their first votes could come Sept. 15 will be to bring a Navy ship to Downtown. Who is going to say No to the Navy. But we can't keep a Promised Downtown Public Pier separate for the people of Jacksonville.
Has anyone talked with councilman Gaffney about this issue?
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Do you have a link to the TU story. I would like to see all of the candidate's answers.
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make it a small amusement park
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Small city initiatives remove fence, throw some grass seed and connect the ten feet between the shipyards and riverwalk. Then try to make the processes as painless as possible for some fisherman and street vendors to operate in an area totally public. Some organic growth may spur some future grand developments.
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Small city initiatives remove fence, throw some grass seed and connect the ten feet between the shipyards and riverwalk. Then try to make the processes as painless as possible for some fisherman and street vendors to operate in an area totally public. Some organic growth may spur some future grand developments.
I know, COJ suffers from the same affliction that blew up SPAR over in Springfield. They have unilaterally determined that it will either be a vacant lot or a $400million giant development, and the market be damned. Well, ok, the market won't be damned and now big shock it's still a vacant lot. It's time to wrap our heads around the fact that, as adults, we can't always have everything we want.
Let's do what we can with it...and the sooner the better.
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Divide it up, sell it piece by piece and let the new owners do whatever they want with it.
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Today a Ribbon cutting ceremony at Metropolitan Park Marina designating it as a Clean Marina. Starts at 9:30. Mayor Peyton, Council members Johnson and Gaffney are also expected to participate. Still have no idea what councilman Gaffney is wanting to do with the 680' Downtown Jacksonville Public Pier. I hope to ask him if he is going to take the lead and keep it separate in this citywide city council and mayoral campaign issue.
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Small city initiatives remove fence, throw some grass seed and connect the ten feet between the shipyards and riverwalk. Then try to make the processes as painless as possible for some fisherman and street vendors to operate in an area totally public. Some organic growth may spur some future grand developments.
I know, COJ suffers from the same affliction that blew up SPAR over in Springfield. They have unilaterally determined that it will either be a vacant lot or a $400million giant development, and the market be damned. Well, ok, the market won't be damned and now big shock it's still a vacant lot. It's time to wrap our heads around the fact that, as adults, we can't always have everything we want.
Let's do what we can with it...and the sooner the better.
It's Downtown Jacksonville's front porch.Southern style.
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It's Downtown Jacksonville's front porch
That's a great tagline, thanks North Miami!
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After attending numerous river related meetings. I'm of the opinion that if our local legislative representatives don't take legislative action to immediately open the Promised Downtown Public Pier for Public Access and Economic opportunity than the issue should be expanded to make it an issue not only in the local city council and mayoral campaign races but expanded to the Governors race.
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AMEN, brother!
FREE our PIER
FREE our PIER
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Snapped a few more pics on my bike ride this morning. I did some very scientific measurements on the width of the pier. I wear a size 13 shoe and I counted 44 paces in length. So the pier is somewhere over 40' feet wide.
(http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/815/picture014xl.jpg)
(http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/8329/picture015zk.jpg)
(http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/6947/picture016wy.jpg)
(http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/9461/picture012d.jpg)
This is the view of the Berkman marina looking West from the pier.
(http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/2966/picture017q.jpg)
Here is where the Riverwalk ends at the Berkman property line.
(http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/4791/picture011cl.jpg)
Here you can see the work done to the bulkhead, so you can see extending the Riverwalk wouldn't be all that difficult.
(http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/8591/picture013hk.jpg)
And just for referance, this is the public restroom facility I mentioned along the Northbank Riverwalk at the foot of the Acosta Bridge.
(http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/5710/picture018my.jpg)
Fieldafm captures it. This spot after the city council and mayoral campaign can be a hub of vibrant active urban revitalization and a springboard for Downtown. Keep score.
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District 4 city councilman Don Redman as a new member of the Jacksonville Waterways Commission and Downtown Vision is in a position to now offer an ordinance to keep the 680' Promised Downtown Public Pier separate from 2010-604 which what was Shipyards/Landmar.
This is a huge campaign issue.
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Will Councilman Redman have any opposition for re-election?
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I can't say for sure at this time but he represents part of my world, talk about gerry mandering,across the street! The rest of my world is supposed to have representation, but Dick Brown was appointed to fill Art Grahams position.............this has just shown what Mr Brown is............basically a zero! He does not represent anyone other than himself and the rest of GOB Network!
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well CS...you'll be happy to know Mr. Brown doesn't desire to run for the seat once his temporary term is up.
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Gee thanks..but I all ready know! Did you know that I volunteered to fill that position at no cost to the City? My view was that District 13 should have had representation on the Council and with Mr Meserves legal issue's and removal,my district had no representation. Charlie evidently did not feel that was prudent, whatever his reasons, so now we have one of the GOB Insiders who is not only just filling a spot on the Council, but is getting paid to do it! First thing he was involved in was a zoning change and he did not even show up cognizant of the issue so............what use is he? Still have no representation on the Council and this does not make me happy and I still get to pay for his salary!
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After attending numerous river related meetings. I'm of the opinion that if our local legislative representatives don't take legislative action to immediately open the Promised Downtown Public Pier for Public Access and Economic opportunity than the issue should be expanded to make it an issue not only in the local city council and mayoral campaign races but expanded to the Governors race.
At the Veterans Day parade I was fortunate to have a brief moment with Gov elect Scott and mentioned to him when you see the piers along the river imagine using one pier and small businesses operating out of containers for the immediate creation of jobs and getting people to work. He said that the ports will be a big focus in Florida. I agree.
At Wend. Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting I asked Don Redman and any other member of Waterways to sponsor legislation to keep the Downtown Public Pier separate from Shipyards/Landmar. This request is in the Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting minutes 3 months in a row.
The Public Trust has been destroyed in this community. If Annie Lyltle can be legally land locked don't kid yourself that the people of Jacksonville can lose this opportunity for Public Access. Even if you don't use it right away any council member can introduce legislation to have it separate.
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Current Councilmembers are more interested incovering their respective butts than they are representing the people who voted them into office Mr Noone! With few exceptions, the Council needs to be cleaned out or we will never get moving forward..............I am looking forward to when the candidates start spouting their platforms and putting their respective agendas out before the public! March is not far out, which means that come January everyone will start making a move..........can't wait!
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Is anyone on this forum participating in the current JCCI study? Its called Recession Recovery and Beyond.
I've participated in two.
My first was River Dance. The first meeting was a presentation by Downtown Vision and the focus of the presentation were recommendations that were made by Chan Krieger and Associates who came to our city and spent 3 days in our Downtown. The remnants of the Old Fuller Warren Bridge were highly visible and in place during this 3 day observation period. After the power point presentation with pictures and specific recommendations it was open for Q&A
My question was along the lines "At any time did Chan and Krieger after spending 3 days in our Downtown have any thoughts or suggestions on what to do with what is remaining of the OFWB?
The response back that it was their position that it should be SAVED and USED. WOW! So we invite these people to come and help us and by the way we'll be blowing up that critical vertical access point that would narrow the river.
Chan Krieger and associates put it in their report that basically we were making a mistake.
Now we have Savannah College of Art and Design. A refined scope of observation. By the way we'll be keeping this Promised 680' Public Pier. If this teeny tiny bit of information was made known to the students then how would this have changed some of the designs especially as it relates to the river.
SCAD did this for FREE. Very good work. And in no way am I diminishing it.
Lets save $400,000 of taxpayer money on a study to move the fair. Reach out to another school.
So can you imagine how exciting it was to see that a team recognized that the existing pier should be SAVED and USED. And another team suggested the use of containers for economic opportunity.
Those who voted on this forum to the question are very clearly saying to our future city council and mayoral candidates that the issue of Public Access to the River is important.
On Tues. our city council will be voting on 2010-616 returning the ETHICS to our city charter. Watch for a floor amendment by Fussell who oversaw the formation of the Charter Revision Commission.
Remember 2010-675-USS Adams. A Finance amendment. This legislation did not go before the Jacksonville Waterways Commission. WHY?
The people of Jacksonville should be scared to death, petrified, What are you afraid of?
Its just dumb luck that we are even getting this back.
Who will be the the Jacksonville city council member that will introduce legislation that will keep the Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier separate from the other 44 acres that was Shipyards/Landmar?
Keep score.
If the current city council won't do it then the community needs to ask the mayoral candidates.
Keep score.
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Good questions Mr Noone! Please to keep score, if possible, inquiring minds want to know.......like me! Mr Redman has not stepped up .......yet.......hopefully soon!
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Time is running out for the current administration and city council on the Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier.
I had an opportunity last night to speak with councilman Gaffney the Dist.7 representative who was speaking at the unveiling and neighborhood meeting on the Park View Pavilion in Springfield. He also wants everyone to sign his petition for re election to Dist. 7.
I asked him about the status and he says that everybody wants it to happen. BUT nobody has come to him and showed him the money.
In my opinion Bay Street Pier Park with a street car access component can happen now.
2010-604 is Shipyards/Landmar 44 acres all under JEDC control.
Its not going to take home runs but singles. In my opinion the JEDC needs to walk the batter and put that runner on the pier. And the coach of the pier will then decide if he wants to bunt or hit away.
In my opinion the Entertainment District will occur on the 44 acres but the pier will create its own vibrancy with substitute players that will be transient vendors 2010-856. A sponsored container that will circumvent the signage ordinance. A special Drinking Zone 2010-813 an opportunity for everyone to access, celebrate, promote, and preserve our St. Johns River our American Heritage River within our Downtown Jacksonville Overlay Zoning District.
Anybody going to a Vision for Jacksonville Friday?
Anyone going to the St. Johns River Alliance meeting in Palatka Monday?
Does anyone want to Make it Happen?
In my opinion after the Jan. 4 2011 swearing in of Gov.elect Rick Scott this issue escalates from a local issue to a state issue.
Our new slogan
Lets get to work-Just not in Jacksonville.
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Got the date wrong.
Vision for Jacksonville is Dec. 8
Contact Carolyn Clark
carolynclark@uli.org or call 904-486-8256
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Went to the Vision for Jacksonville.
Today I'm going to the Board meeting of the St. Johns River Alliance in Palatka. John Delaney is the chair. I'm hoping there is an opportunity for Public comment.
I'll mention to the 34 Board members the status of 2010-604 and 2010-856. The people of Jacksonville should be tremendously concerned about these two pieces of legislation.
Will you be allowed to participate or banned?
Keep score.
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Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting in two hours. Councilman Redman Dist. 4 also on the board representing the council with Downtown Vision, also Downtown is his District, also on Waterways. Will he do anything?
So is Crescimbeni and Bishop.
Will be asking for the 4Th month in a row for a resolution of support for the Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier. Former Shipyards/Landmar 2010-604
After today I truly believe that this issue will escalate to the Governor of the state of Florida. It is important that the new Governor is immediately made aware of this violation of the Public Trust. His immediate intervention on this issue will allow the people of Florida to then Access, Promote, Celebrate, and Preserve our St. Johns River our American Heritage River.
If not.
Our new slogan
Lets get to work= Just not in Jacksonville.
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At the final Waterway meeting of 2010 I asked the Jacksonville Waterways Commission if they would sponsor a resolution that could be taken back to the full Jacksonville city council to keep the Promised 680'Downtown Public Pier separate from the Shipyrds?Landmar property for the 4th month in a row. Its not happening.
Cresimbeni as chair of Waterways is not interested in doing it. Councilman Bishop and Redman were silent.
I also mentioned to the commission members that I attended the St. Johns River Alliance Board meeting in Palatka on Monday and made the other 12 counties aware of pending legislation 2010-856 that will have a direct impact on Duval counties ability to participate in the future state wide creation of a Paddling Blueway. Commission member Rick Hartley is going to look into it further.
Mentioned the Florida Times Union article about Mr. O'Byrne the new CEO of Visit Jacksonville and how this pending legislation could impact our city. Can't wait to meet the man.
Pocket Parks- Pocket Piers- the Shipyards Pier-The Landmar Pier- Whatever you want to call it. This city council and mayoral election in 3 months is HUGE. If you think we are getting more access and opportunity you are wrong.
Keep score.
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::cheers:: Noone
sorry I missed ALL of these.
::moves rock from cave::
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Sat.Times Union story by Matt Galnor and the 7 Mayoral candidates responses to what their plans would be for the Shipyards/Landmar property would be goes to At large Jacksonville city councilwoman Glorious Johnson and her remark that the people of Jacksonville need to never forget about the Promised Downtown Public Pier. Councilwoman Johnson has just told the People of Jacksonville that if elected Mayor there will be a Public Pier that will have Public and Private business. That's a homerun in my book.
This is a city wide city council and mayoral campaign issue. As soon as the legislation clears 2010-604 and the city has clear title there are other current council members that could introduce legislation that could make the 680' Promised Downtown Public Pier separate from the other 44 acres. Keep score.
The issue of a 680' Promised Downtown Public Pier can escalate to a statewide joke if the City of Jacksonville very quickly unless our current elected legislative representatives fail to act with legislation to keep the pier separate.
1. Sept.15,16 the River Summit and telling the other 11 counties that the current administration is opposed to this Promised Downtown Public Pier.
2. Oct. 20 the start of JCCI and their 71st Community Engagement Study (I've participated in two)
this one is called
Recession Recovery and Beyond:
Job Creation, Employment and Improving Northeast Florida's Competitiveness
Lets see......
Job Creation....680' Promised Downtown Public Pier
We are a port city. 14 Ports in the state of Florida.
Using containers for immediate job creation and Public Access.
3. We are getting a new Executive Director for JPA.
Lets see......
We are a port city. 14 Ports in the state of Florida.
The opening of the Panama Canal for larger container ships.
Using a shipping container for tourism on a pier in the heart of our Downtown Jacksonville Overlay Zoning District could create a BUZZ if its not being done anywhere else.
We want to take the Port to the next level.
4. 4 new members on the Jacksonville Waterways Commission and one of their first votes could come Sept. 15 will be to bring a Navy ship to Downtown. Who is going to say No to the Navy. But we can't keep a Promised Downtown Public Pier separate for the people of Jacksonville.
Has anyone talked with councilman Gaffney about this issue?
In 4 hours the city of Jacksonville and the world will know who our next Executive Director of the Jacksonville Port Authority will be. I can't wait to meet the person.
I hope to share an opportunity that our new director of the port may want to suggest to our new Mayor in 3 months that by showcasing a container on our Promised Downtown 680' Public Pier within our Downtown Jacksonville Overlay Zoning District that Jacksonville's position as a worldwide port is happening and we are open for business.
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feels like more is in the works than public or constructive notice has made us aware. .
While I've read this entire thread (more than once) I've also lived here all of my life.
as has been stated=public trust IS sorely damaged.
We have to hold our council members' collective feet to the fire.
I am attending a neighborhod watch 'social' Saturday (tomorrow the 18th) at 4pm for the residents of the King St. brewery district at 4pm
Bold City.
I want to spread the word and drum up the interest in kept promises!
IF Noone or anyone as heated about this could make an appearance and help me turn up the volume!
I hate that this is such last minute notice.
do we have or need the favor of the Berkman residents?
Who MUST be on our side in order for us to be successful?
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make that 49 total votes with 45 YESSSes
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Ricker,
Just got back from the Jaxport Board of Directors meeting and the approval of recommendation of the next CEO of Jaxport.
The Board moved the process to seek Paul Anderson of Ft. Lauderdale as the next CEO of Jaxport.
Can't make it Sat. for that meeting at 4. Still waiting to hear from Field if we are going to do that RAM paddle.
Ricker, I'll take you and show you Hogans Creek. Do you have a kayak? If not I have a tandem. Its an awesome trip.
As for the residents of Berkman Plaza they want the pier. I attended the announcement of the Downtown Action Plan that was unveiled to the general public in 2007. At that meeting a resident of Berkman asked Ron Barton about the pier. In all fairness to Ron it has been Mayor Peyton that has not moved forward on this benefit for access and economic opportunity.
That is why this next city council race and mayoral campaign race is so important. If a candidate won't support the pier I wouldn't vote for them.
There are other issues but this issue has regional and statewide implications.
From what I have ascertained to this point is that councilwoman Johnson would have supported it. I believe Jim Bailey would. I have a feeling that Audry Moran would.
I don't think Mullaney or Hogan would. They can always jump on here and set the record straight. Brown I don't know.
As for council members I don't get the feeling that Gaffney would. I don't think that Redman would. Cresimbeni wouldn't.
A side bar to this entire river issue is 2010-856 and the impact that it will have on anyone that wants to access, promote, celebrate, and preserve our St. Johns River our American Heritage River.
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you've seen the mooovie - the man who knew too little - I feel like him.
I thank you kindly for your patience in rehashing this here in current detail.
I let my neighbor borrow my kayak a lonnngtime ago - I moved, they still had it.
by the time I thought about it - they had moved away.
tandem sounds ok so long as I don't tip us!
While I am definitely obligated to attend and assist the host of the "watch social", I will also (attempt to) collect email addresses of all individuals who perk up about my mention of the pier.
glad to hear about the position of those in the Berkman. understood regarding Mr.Barton and the "resistance"...
Paul Anderson of Fort Lauderdale. I have homework to do.
2010-856
Hogan's
RAM
like the little older lady in Karate Kid "take me weetu"
Hey HEY was it you who wants to get a pack of DIYers together to attack the overgrowth on the banks of the Hogan and McCoys?
I read of it in a thread and am all for some swingblade weed attack action.
Field and brush mowers unite.
even though it would "COST" the coj truly next to nothing_nil_NICHT_ to do the right thing-
ACTIVISM is far more fun.
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At the final Waterway meeting of 2010 I asked the Jacksonville Waterways Commission if they would sponsor a resolution that could be taken back to the full Jacksonville city council to keep the Promised 680'Downtown Public Pier separate from the Shipyrds?Landmar property for the 4th month in a row. Its not happening.
Cresimbeni as chair of Waterways is not interested in doing it. Councilman Bishop and Redman were silent.
Keep score.
:-X :-X
Many jaws have dropped over Waterways Commission proceedings.I suggest we look to sunset this commission.
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Thanks for the heads up on which Council member is doing nothing! I am taking note!
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If the City owns the entire parcel why separate it? We may extend the Riverwalk one and that will separate the parcel automatically.
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Might not either Scott! I , for one, would like to see the Pier seperate and a stand alone entity! That would make sure it is seperate from the entire parcel! Set up right, it could very well fund itself without a lot of City oversight or management...........but thats just me!
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What would it take - or is it even possible - for this to be put on the ballot and let the voters decide directly?
From reading the last few pages of this thread - I have learned two things:
1) Your passion for this is unbelievable and I am grateful that you are fighting for the cause.
2) Our current elected officials aren't going to take any action on it.
Forgive me if the answer is in the first 6 pages - didn't have patience this morning to go back and read the entire thing.
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WOW this conversation wanders...
WHO here is FOR the NORTHBANK RIVERWALK oneday-WITHIN our lifetime-stretching from Memorial Park the south end of Margaret St. in Riverside at the ParkLane, along the soon-to-be-restored Olmsted Gardens behind the RedCross next to Riverside Arts Marketat all the way to the old Ford plant off Talleyrand on Wambolt just north of the Mathews bridge? through the 'shipyards' passing Maxwell house, Met Park and OUR pier?
best way to give the downtown and springfield residents a reason to give DT a chance or ever see a successful hotel survive on Riverside Ave when we already have the Hyatt and CrownePlaza, Wyndham and so many empty condos.
As the lady at the Ritz museum in LaVilla says, "RAISE EV'RY VOICE!"
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If the City owns the entire parcel why separate it?
We may extend the Riverwalk one and that will separate the parcel automatically.
Its not IF. 2010-604 was the legislation that gave it back. The Riverwalk WILL be extended past the pier. You and I were standing right there when the graduate students from SCAD were giving their presentations and one team suggested that it should be saved and used and the team next to them suggested that shipping containers could be used for economic opportunity and their reasoning had to do with the fact that we are a port city and the realization that the Panama canal was opening. So what is Don's position? Does he have one? And I'm not talking about passing the ball off to Ron Barton. One thing that I've learned over all these years is that the city councilman can introduce legislation and then the rest of the council after going through the various committees will then vote it up or down. Two months ago Don introduced legislation to move Halloween. It was then withdrawn by him. Don is in a fantastic position right now to do something. In my opinion he hasn't. We are 3 months out from a city council and mayoral election. What is his position?
Might not either Scott! I , for one, would like to see the Pier separate and a stand alone entity! That would make sure it is separate from the entire parcel! Set up right, it could very well fund itself without a lot of City oversight or management...........but that's just me!
CS I agree 100%. The Public Trust has been crushed. First it just dumb luck that we are getting it back. Not skill. It is and should be a number one city council and mayoral campaign issue. In the Dist 4 and Dist. 7 race the current representation is doing nothing. Be concerned. Talk is cheap. Legislation is the dialogue of the city. I'm only voting for someone who is going to Make it Happen.
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THE MISSING ELEMENT
(http://tuffydog.com/pics/weedonisland01.jpg)
Weed Island, Tampa
(http://www.seakayak.ws/photocat.nsf/webphotos/2DB47744B5E3D9F585256CD800801A91/$file/Campic07.jpg)
Alafia River Florida
(http://www.co.sarasota.fl.us/ParksandRecreation/RecreationCenters/images/PhillippiEstate/PEPkayakcanoelaunch.JPG)
SARASOTA
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b307/HurricaneTeen/LaunchwithKayak.jpg)
Juniper Springs Run, Ocala National Forest
(http://media.naplesnews.com/media/img/photos/2006/11/04/061102BB-05imp07_t607.jpg)
NAPLES
Either way, east or west, north or south, the river downtown needs a short 100' section of "beach". The REAL SAND on a beach, with a couple of garden hose hook ups, a secure rack and gear lockers would turn downtown into a paddlers paradise. Paddling would generate no small amount of tourism DOWNTOWN.
OCKLAWAHA
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Noone, I am partially reposting this post regarding the Manhattan waterfront greenway I posted under the Robert Meyer thread as it may be more topical here and offer some inspiration and/or support for your goals for the Shipyard assets. Note the very end of the last quote regarding a "sanitation pier" conversion. Good luck.
Much of New York's docks have been removed and the frontage redeveloped with wide expanses of greenways, bike, jogging, and walking paths, and playgrounds and parks with a few historic sites (e.g. the Battery), museums, restaurants, kiosks, and marinas mixed in. I still say the Shipyards and JEA sites should be ground zero for starting this up in Jax. The Riverwalk is nice, but it is a narrow thread line compared to the NY waterfront being transformed from its past.
Battery Park Esplanade:
(http://cdn.wn.com/pd/37/ca/469ffaa933de05d438fd56845f95_grande.jpg)
Manhattan Waterfront Greenway Map at: http://www.nycgovparks.org/sub_things_to_do/facilities/af_bike_maps.html
(http://mappery.com/maps/Manhattan-Waterfront-Greenway-Bike-Map.mediumthumb.pdf.png)
http://www.nycgovparks.org/facilities/bikeways
Why Greenways?
(http://www.nycgovparks.org/sub_things_to_do/facilities/images/bicycling_2.jpg)
A greenway is a linear open space, such as a path or trail, which links parks and communities around the City, providing public access to green spaces and the waterfront. Greenways expand recreational opportunities for walking, jogging, biking, and in-line skating.
In 1993, the City of New York had a vision to create 350 miles of landscaped bicycle and pedestrian paths that would crisscross the City's five boroughs and enrich the lives of all New Yorkers. Currently Parks has built over 100 miles of the proposed greenway system. Greenways answer the growing public demand for safe and pleasant ways to travel about the City. These trails allow one to get to work or school, shop or do errands, or to reach the waterfront, parks, beaches, and museums.
Benefits of Greenways
Cyclists, joggers, strollers, skaters, people in wheelchairs or who are mobility-impaired, dog walkers, bird watchers, kids and adults, families and friends, recreational users and commuters—in short, everyone and anyone—gain from the presence and production of greenways. As levels of obesity and diabetes rise among our population, the need to stay fit and healthy has never been more urgent. In order to ensure that no one has to travel too far to use an athletic facility, we are constantly looking to add new properties where parkland previously did not exist and when that is not possible, to bring people to existing facilities.
For Health
Using greenways helps keep you healthy. By bicycle riding, walking, jogging, or skating on the greenways, you can get exercise in an enjoyable way and spend time outdoors!
For Transportation
Riding a bicycle is a form of exercise, recreation, and transportation. Try bicycle riding for your daily commute and see how favorably it compares to driving a car, riding the bus, or taking the subway. Bicycles often get you there in less time, and the scenery is better! It's good for you AND the environment.
For the Environment
The fewer cars we drive and the fewer car trips we make, the cleaner our air becomes. Bicycles and skates don't pollute! By choosing to bike, you will reduce automobile congestion and pollution, thus improving the quality of life in our city. The City's environmental health is also improved because trees are planted along the City's greenways.
For Safety
Designated bicycle paths are excellent places to learn how to ride! Riding on designated bicycle paths is safer than riding on unsigned streets and roads.
For Fun
Greenways are fun! Skate and enjoy time with friends or family, walk to the playground, bike with your children… Trees and plants along greenways make using these paths a relaxing escape from the asphalt jungle. Rediscover New York City's parks, rivers, harbors, and bays! You will see natural landscapes and amazing city views missed by most drivers.
(http://www.renewnyc.com/Newsletters/SummerFall2005/ImagesArticle/waterfront.jpg)
The East River Waterfront Esplanade is receiving $150 million from the Lower Manhattan Development Corporation to create a spectacular waterfront esplanade, to complete the Manhattan greenway, and to reconnect the communities of Lower Manhattan to the East River Waterfront.
Historically, Lower Manhattan’s waterfront area has been the leading shipping capital in the nation. Yet, the waterfront has altered dramatically in Manhattan from industrial use to recreational use. Governor George E. Pataki explained that reclaiming the waterfront has been a key part of the rebuilding process.
The river’s edge from Battery Park to East River Park will morph from inaccessible shores to the lungs of the city. “Chain-link fences and concrete barriers will be replaced by cultural facilities, unique recreational spaces, and community amenities,” said LMDC President Stefan Pryor. Like Central Park, it will be a retreat where people who live, work, and visit Lower Manhattan can escape the glare and glitter of the city to enjoy physical recreation and a sense of community.
(http://www.renewnyc.com/Newsletters/SummerFall2005/ImagesArticle/callout_3.jpg)
As multifaceted as the communities that it serves, the design jointly submitted by Richard Rogers Partnership and SHoP Architects and funded by the LMDC will reflect the local character of each area. The plantings for Pike Street will reflect the local character of each district the street passes through.
Turning garbage to gold, the current sanitation pier will be transformed into a publicly accessible open space on the water with seating for pedestrians. New claddings and enhanced lighting are just a few of the changes which will be found beneath the FDR and in Lower Manhattan’s vicinity.
http://www.renewnyc.com/Newsletters/SummerFall2005/
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stjr, Great addition. Our pier has been garbage up until this point. lol
stjr, Would you like to see Hogans Creek?
Ock, Nice examples of launches, Pocket Piers. Ock, would you like to see Hogans Creek?
Any councilmember can introduce legislation right now to Make it Happen.
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How about Friday afternoon? Weather is supposed to be nice - high of 71. I am running the 5K at 10 am with a bunch of middle schoolers and if that doesn't kill me, then I would be up for a paddle.
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Thats super! Can't wait. Given the time we could meet at Roberts Eatery aka (Robert's Campaign Headquarters) at 8th and Ionia. My treat.
Shoot down to Washington and Liberty and then put in behind the fire station and the police station so we know that safety and security aren't an issue then paddle an urban waterway that will be one of the biggest city council issues and Mayoral campaign issues in the city of Jacksonville.
dougskiles, we're making it happen.
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Awesome! What time shall we meet there?
Who else is in?
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me, I am!
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Regardless of the eventual fate of the Public Pier,in honor of Noone the tip and immediate watery environs shall be known and referred to as NOONE POINT :)
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agreed
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doh!
I am otherwise engaged! you all enjoy.didnt want to silently flake so I hope you see this.
don't die or drown or anything like that and keep the water out of your ears..and eyes and nose and mouth and dont swallow any of it and other than that dont put your eye out and enjoy
sounds adventurous
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People of Jacksonville just be concerned. In my opinion if you think for one second your getting more access and economic opportunity to our St. Johns River you will be getting less. This is Shipyards III just look at the poll. If Landmar had been successful with their development objectives there would have been 150 slip marina with not one slip for the Public. The 16 acres of Public space would have been reduced to 8. The ability with working with the Entertainment division to have shut down the Riverwalk 12 times during the year every year for special events. How special is that? Its just dumb luck that we have it back 2010-604.
What is this city afraid of? 44 acres. We are talking about one lousy piece of a puzzle. This is an election year. Another 4 year cycle. Ask the candidates their position. We are doing another JCCI study RECESSION, RECOVERY, and BEYOND.
Somebody ask Mr. Byrne the new director of Visit Jacksonville what he thinks should happen with this new opportunity. I can't wait to meet the man but I must say I'm feeling so sorry for him right now.
We had Kitty Ratcliff, then John Reyes, Don't you just want to shout out--VISIT our DOWNTOWN PIER.
Somebody ask our new executive director of the Jacksonville Port Authority Paul Anderson what he may think as we take the port to a new level and the possibility of a container on the pier telling the world that we are a port city.
Be concerned. I know for me personally there is no way in heck that I'm voting for anyone that is legislatively going to restrict freedom and economic opportunity. As for the candidates. Ask them. Right now I'm not feeling the love in Dist. 4 or Dist. 7. Who is your council representative? Don't be afraid of this.
If nothing happens our new slogan.
Lets get to work- Just not in Jacksonville
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Ock, Nice examples of launches, Pocket Piers. Ock, would you like to see Hogans Creek?
Sure, I went up about 3 years ago and discovered a whole new batch of hobo jungles. My interest is not unlike yours in that I think it needs to be both perserved AND developed at the same time. A proposal for the streetcar sends it across Hogans Creek at the Beaver Street alignment (there is no street in that section). I'd love to see us do a hybrid of Oklahoma City's Canal Walk, and the old "Sunken Gardens" park. Perhaps a smallish old fashioned Trolley Park or "Electric Park" a 1920's style amusement area on the north end. This would balance losing the fair to Cecil for inner city families, as well as create a tourist destination.
Arrival by streetcar would set the stage for a unique "Dixieland," experience. Traditional rides, and everything brilliantly illuminated. The entire park set in a wooded urban jungle, which could be recreated into a tropical paradise. Add a hotel or creek walk and we'd be off and running with an exceptional addition to the Riverwalk.
AS FOR THE PIER?
I wonder what the odds are of developing of a small cruise terminal at that site connected to downtown by Riverwalk and eventual Skyway? In other words go ahead and develop the large main terminal out east of the Broward Bridge, and build something more like a Florida Welcome Station in a prominent downtown spot for small ships. When a cruise is coming in we could have a staff there for the event, otherwise it would make a great office for Visit Jacksonville.
Idea's anyone?
OCKLAWAHA
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This is Shipyards III just look at the poll. If Landmar had been successful with their development objectives there would have been 150 slip marina with not one slip for the Public. The 16 acres of Public space would have been reduced to 8.
I obviously voted yes in the poll and have already elaborated on my thoughts, but you brought up one area of contention here with the boat slips. I'm mixed on whether the City, via the taxpayer, should foot the bill for public slips. I'm all for public parkspace and riverfront "access" via land along the river, but a public marina is a whole different deal. There aren't many or maybe not any cities that actually foot the bill for construction, maintenance/operations, and liability for public marinas. Jax should be no different.
We already have riverfront docking space that's hardly ever used. Who's to say that a full blow marina will be used? Besides, if we have to pay to golf (even on public courses), play tennis, drive a car/park it, or do just about anything, why should boaters get a free ride? For the record, I am a lifelong boater. People pay up to hundreds of thousands of dollars for slips and there are enough "squatting" boats/boaters dotting the river illegally and city and the FWC and the Marine Patrol do absolutely nothing about them (kind of like the city allows landlords to let buildings rot illegally). I don't see a public marina downtown being a good thing. The city should charge slip fees or docking fees in certain circumstances (events).
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Simms, I don't think we are to far off and together on this one. Like I said out of 150 slips not one for the Public. Keep 149 private. Charge, do what you want. It will all be governed within the codes, covenants, restrictions of the HOA.
I'm just saying allow one. Berkman Plaza, Plaza at Berkman what happened to that gentleman that invested his life savings and I believe it was him and his wife that were attempting a waterway business on a catamaran? There was a story in the TU. Shortly after that he was gone. I heard they had to leave. Some loophole. So how many boat slips have been sitting empty there and for how long? Another business attempt squashed.
The legislature and the new way to look at what constitutes a WORKING WATERFRONT.
There was another thread about using the River. Use the PIER!
Granvil Tracy the developer of the Peninsula even before he broke ground I asked him about the OFWB. He told me that it would be great to have and use on the Southbank. Next time somebody sees him just ask him how he would like to see a pier across the river from his beautiful property.
Its an election cycle and right now its not happening. A new director for Visit Jacksonville. New director at JAA. New director at the JPA. New city council. New Mayor after 8 years. Legislation 2010-856 transient vendor ban that can have a Major impact on Commerce on our Waterways. You can just see how opportunity and economic freedom could get lost in this shuffle.
No way am I supporting any candidate that won't save and use the PIER. Be concerned.
Keep score.
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Picture = 1,000 words.
Noone - do you have any renderings that show the pier as it could should be? I'm not talking about the SCAD stuff (which was cool but not imminently realistic). With a little work on Sketchup and Google Earth, I think we can come up with something that will help with the sell.
Perhaps a little design charette after the paddle on Friday. Is anyone else in? Don't tell me that you all are busy on Friday afternoon? If you can't make the paddle, how about a brainstorming session?
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No I don't have any renderings. The talent on this forum is awesome. Not to start a list of the numerous posters that could immediately step up to the plate and make it happen but Ock amazes me with his examples and product knowledge on so many topics but especially rail.
Fieldafm had some good examples early in this thread. Hope he's OK haven't seen him post lately.
Looking forward to spending some time with you and your son on the water tomorrow. Bring your camera. Should be a beautiful day. Ricker appreciate the heads up. We'll do it another day.
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NOONE- what is OFWB?
sorry, newbily yours.
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Climb out of your box y'all and let's look at some pictures...
(http://www.marinahousing.fi/files/images/frontpages/frontpage-solutions-pier.jpg)
(http://www.martinfoley.com.au/wp-content/uploads/seapoolimage1.jpg)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3160/2951190530_4816e17b75.jpg)
(http://sneakermestupid.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/puma-city-boston-04.jpg)
(http://www.jaredraju.com/images/Inverloch_C.jpg)
(http://weburbanist.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/5-pier-57-shipping-container-mall.jpg)
(http://englishrussia.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/425121.jpg)
(http://www.bustler.net/images/gallery/white_arkitekter_southend_pier_02.jpg)
(http://www.archdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/aqulis88.jpg)
(http://mysite.verizon.net/thefilmfrontier/images/chicagoNavyPier.jpg)
(http://www.renewnyc.com/Images/segment3_renderings_09-20-05.jpg)
(http://curbednetwork.com/cache/gallery/3208/3045197795_feb6d381b2_o.jpg)
I found it interesting and something that should peak JAXPORT and DVI attention in that 5 different images show SMALL SHIP CRUISES tied up at the piers. In a city that sometimes I think was built on "trailer houses, pickup trucks, Red Man Chew, and Walmart," small ship cruises with their broader range of excursions actually offer cruises that Jacksonville could afford.
OCKLAWAHA
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Nice Pics Ock. I just think that in 3 months we'll be voting for a new Mayor and city council. Who will be the candidates that will use the river?
Ricker the OFWB is the Old Fuller Warren Bridge. The span of the old I95 south span was partially under the new Fuller Warren span. It extended 1300' out into the river. It was also a shaded structure. The Peyton administration and Baptist hospital didn't want it despite numerous reports and studies that said that it could be saved and used.
Its gone now. So the community moves forward. An opportunity lost.
We now have Shipyards III. 2010-604. Ask the candidates their position and what they want to do. Be concerned.
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inspiring!
Who are our candidates?
mayoral
council
They must ALL go on record stating their positions.
WE MUST NOT BE DISTRACTED by talk of the future extension of the Northbank Riverwalk!
Such a proposal does absolutely nothing to secure the pier for the use of the tax-paying public!
Flashmob march on city hall, anyone?
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Will an amendment be attached to 2010-856 to exempt the Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier?
Be concerned.
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Where is FTU Ron Littlepage on a public pier??
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There aren't many or maybe not any cities that actually foot the bill for construction, maintenance/operations, and liability for public marinas. Jax should be no different.
Just St. Petersburg, Miami, New York City, Fernandina, Ft. Myers, San Diego, Toronto, Norfolk, Annapolis, Elizabeth City, ....just to name the ones that I have personally been in. These cities frequently hire private companies to run them, but the cities built them and own them.
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Just where do all of the various local candidates 'stand' on a public pier?? The info seems illusive.
Is there a rush to seal the pier's fate prior to the elections??
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Where is FTU Ron Littlepage on a public pier??
He's for it. He wrote an editorial about opening up the entire site as a riverfront public park. That's a bit too much grande IMO, but I like his support for the pier.
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I'd still be concerned. The entire site. Shipyards III. Go back to the original poll. The administration doesn't want it separate. Its not happening with legislation from Dist. 4 or 7. That's why it should be one of the biggest city council and mayoral campaign issues. Nobody is making it happen.
Keep score.
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inspiring!
Who are our candidates?
mayoral
council
They must ALL go on record stating their positions.
WE MUST NOT BE DISTRACTED by talk of the future extension of the Northbank Riverwalk!
Such a proposal does absolutely nothing to secure the pier for the use of the tax-paying public!
Flashmob march on city hall, anyone?
Hell yeah I'm all for a flashmob march on city hall!!!
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I'd still be concerned. The entire site. Shipyards III. Go back to the original poll. The administration doesn't want it separate. Its not happening with legislation from Dist. 4 or 7. That's why it should be one of the biggest city council and mayoral campaign issues. Nobody is making it happen.
Keep score.
This property is located in District 7 not District 4. I think it is fair to allow the District 7 representative to lead the way for his district.
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There is a candidate running for Dist 7 in this upcoming March election who has expressed support for the Bay Street Pier Park.
Keep score!!
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I'd still be concerned. The entire site. Shipyards III. Go back to the original poll. The administration doesn't want it separate. Its not happening with legislation from Dist. 4 or 7. That's why it should be one of the biggest city council and mayoral campaign issues. Nobody is making it happen.
Keep score.
This property is located in District 7 not District 4. I think it is fair to allow the District 7 representative to lead the way for his district.
and therein lies the problem...both Districts include downtown....in fact, this property is less than 3 blocks from District 4....both council members should speak up!
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actually I stand corrected...it appears the Pier itself is in District 4!
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actually I stand corrected...it appears the Pier itself is in Diostrict 4!
That's what I thought too...
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I believe the candidates can remain safely obscure because in fact there may in reality be very little ardent community interest and support for Downtown public access,spontaneous access Blueways etc.It's just not in the demographic.
I often ask myself "what would San Francisco do?" only to remind myself of the almost visceral differences in the two communities.After all,even many of my own Avondale neighbors shy away from 'downtown'.
I see too another gigantic force,development 'pressure', reflective as a parallel with conservation lands purchase legacy.Here we have a downtown parcel dangling between the prospect of more intense development vs. less intense development and public use.No different than the earlier fate before what is now Guana Sate Park/Wildlife Management Area,Talbot Islands,Jennings Forest.The list is long,as is the list of lands that were 'lost' to development.The entire process in a behind the scenes/non JonQpublic operation no matter how oriented to public interest.
In the 70's and 80's,conservationists were scolded:"If you tell me what to do with my land....Buy It!!!"So that is what we enabled,beginning with the Conservation and Recreation Lands Act,Save our Rivers etc.
And with C.A.R.L. in place,the theme then morphed to outright opposition to conservation land purchase.A long time transpired before Northeast Florida saw a C.A.R.L. purchase.The same force that would further compromise the already compromised Freedom Commerce wetland tract in the name of Preservation Jacksonville.A pervasive,insidious force,part & parcel amidst public apathy,a sense of futility created by design.
And that is the energy behind why candidate's positions and community zeal regarding Downtown Jacksonville Public Pier is twilight zone to many of us.......................
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I'd still be concerned. The entire site. Shipyards III. Go back to the original poll. The administration doesn't want it separate. Its not happening with legislation from Dist. 4 or 7. That's why it should be one of the biggest city council and mayoral campaign issues. Nobody is making it happen.
Keep score.
This property is located in District 7 not District 4. I think it is fair to allow the District 7 representative to lead the way for his district.
and therein lies the problem...both Districts include downtown....in fact, this property is less than 3 blocks from District 4....both council members should speak up!
Tufsu, You are so right. Legislation is the language of the community. We are 90 days out and its not happening. The pier is a single. We are just starting the game. With a new Mayor and city council 90 days out we are getting our line up together.
The rookie McCullough running in Dist.7 he's indicated that he wants to go to the plate. And he's gotten his feet wet with Hogans Creek. Maybe he'll get hit with the pitch but HEY. He's on base.
Don's had all the training in the world. He is sitting on the Board of DVI. Downtown is part of his district. He is on the Waterways Commission. So why is he still sitting on the bench?
Don and I were right there. Scott you too. At the special committee meeting on 2010-604 which was the legislation that gave the Shipyards/Landmar property back to the people of Jacksonville. Not skill. Just Dumb Luck. Before we headed out of the Bullpen on the 4Th floor from the committee meeting we had a pep talk from Steve Rohan and Cindy Laquidara. (The coaches). We can attach an amendment to the legislation now or we can do it later. We didn't attach the legislation. Now here we are and its later and it still hasn't happened.
Be concerned.
Keep score.
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Yes a pier in and of itself is fine. It makes a lot of sense and should be done as promised years ago. All I'm saying is that the carnival like atmosphere stuff won't work without the surrounding property having uses that draw heavy foot traffic to the area.
Lake you are right in that the heavy foot traffic is also needed. What I hope that people realize is that and I may be off with this but our Depts are are becoming centralized.
We now have Parks,Recreation,Entertainment and now to include Conservation. Shipyards/Landmar and its just dumb luck that we are getting it back will now focus on flex space with more special events that will generate revenue for the city. If that is the plan then OK.
The Pier and those that want to embark on the entrepreneurial spirit can be allowed to do so and then be outside of the special events guidelines that are imposed on special events and be able to operate when the heavy foot traffic isn't there.
The use of containers because we are a port city. They can be retrofitted for commercial use. Sturdy. Show up and open the door and your in business.
Types of business.
Food container.
Exercise container
Art container
Sportsmans container
Informational container.
60 days out from an election.
What is the position of the candidates for our NEW Mayor and city council on keeping the pier separate? We know its not happening with leadership in Dist.4
Mr. O'Byrne the NEW director for Visit Jacksonville.
Mr. Anderson the NEW director of the JPA.
Has this been discussed within the NEW JCCI study that is underway Recession, Recovery, and Beyond?
What is the position of the NEW leadership at the Chamber?
At the next city council meeting 1/25/11 the council will welcome Tera Meeks as our NEW Chief of the Waterfront Management & Programming Division of the Recreation & Community Services Department.
In 10 hours a special committee meeting of Rules/RCD/LUZ on 2010-856 the transient vendor ban and a potential amendment that would exempt the Waterways of our St. Johns River our American Heritage River.
Be concerned.
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47 days out from the spring elections and what are the positions of the candidates on the Promised Downtown Jacksonville Public Pier?
The Public Trust has just been crushed in this community.
Not more access but less access and economic opportunity to the river.
Pocket Parks - Pocket Piers (floating dock). Two years out and not one location or sponsor to take back to the commissioners of FIND. What a joke.
2010-856- Active pending legislation that is before the Jacksonville city council. A transient vendor ban. Will the Waterways of the St. Johns River be exempt as the SJRA is seeking a state designation of a Blueway Paddling trail for the St. Johns River our American Heritage River. The state of Florida is wanting to know if an amendment will be attached.
Its not happening with the leadership in Dist. 4
Be concerned.
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47 days out from the spring elections and what are the positions of the candidates on the Promised Downtown Jacksonville Public Pier?
Pocket Parks - Pocket Piers (floating dock). Two years out and not one location or sponsor to take back to the commissioners of FIND. What a joke.
Be concerned.
Could or should the Jacksonville Waterways Commission have involvement?? There is a tie in there to The Trust for Public Lands which has been pretty much joined at the hip with City government.
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47 days out from the spring elections and what are the positions of the candidates on the Promised Downtown Jacksonville Public Pier?
The Public Trust has just been crushed in this community.
Not more access but less access and economic opportunity to the river.
Pocket Parks - Pocket Piers (floating dock). Two years out and not one location or sponsor to take back to the commissioners of FIND. What a joke.
2010-856- Active pending legislation that is before the Jacksonville city council. A transient vendor ban. Will the Waterways of the St. Johns River be exempt as the SJRA is seeking a state designation of a Blueway Paddling trail for the St. Johns River our American Heritage River. The state of Florida is wanting to know if an amendment will be attached.
Its not happening with the leadership in Dist. 4
Be concerned.
I've heard of the Blueway Paddling Trail, What exactly is it?
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NM, Susan Grandin, Executive Director of the Trust for Public Lands use to be on the Commission. Unfortunately what has been occurring is that legislation that should be before the Waterways Commission for discussion is being cherry picked upstairs and is corrupting the intent of this oversight Commission.
The Public Trust has been crushed in this community. meeting in 3 1/2 hours my councilman Don Redman has done nothing. Now on the Board of DVI, Doesn't support a pocket pier in Dist.4. Refuses to offer legislation on 2010-604 and the Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier, Not offering an amendment to 2010-856.
What is the position of the Civic council on the pier and the rest of the Waterfront component of their plan? Will it come before Waterways? Even a courtesy presentation.
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The civic council report adopts Ben Carter's ideas about a miniature amusement park on the site of Bay Street Pier Park.
I spent half a day exploring the Brooklyn Pier Park spaces last week... not one of the current or proposed pier parks utilize a ferris wheel. In fact, all of the pier parks that make up the entire complex all encourage active use of the space(walking, running, biking, kayaking, restaurants on barges/boats tied to docks, outdoor yoga space, fishing, sightseeing, outdoor ampitheatres, outdoor movies overlooking the NY skyline, tons of sports fields, container storefronts, public restrooms, tons of benches overlooking the skyline etc). There was even a wedding party taking pictures on one of the parkspaces with the majestic site of the downtown skyline behind them. Why muck up Jacksonville's FRONT PORCH with a giant ferris wheel?!?!?!
Noone, we need to get some renderings in front of the Civic Council at their next meeting. They clearly need some education in this area.\
The Bay Street Pier Park could be built for about the cost of the proposed courthouse public plaza. Let the rest of the Shipyards site be able to evolve naturally with the market(residential, commercial, light industrial) but seperate the park from the entire site. It would only COMPLEMENT the market-driven movement on the remaining 41 acres.
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NM, Susan Grandin, Executive Director of the Trust for Public Lands use to be on the Commission. Unfortunately what has been occurring is that legislation that should be before the Waterways Commission for discussion is being cherry picked upstairs and is corrupting the intent of this oversight Commission.
The Public Trust has been crushed in this community. meeting in 3 1/2 hours my councilman Don Redman has done nothing. Now on the Board of DVI, Doesn't support a pocket pier in Dist.4. Refuses to offer legislation on 2010-604 and the Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier, Not offering an amendment to 2010-856.
What is the position of the Civic council on the pier and the rest of the Waterfront component of their plan? Will it come before Waterways? Even a courtesy presentation.
Don Redman has to go, it was said that, he'd be a bad choice before he even got elected. Then he tried to move Haloween that's was a frivolous move on his part. Vote "NO" for Redman!
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Redman is running unopposed.
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I am all for an amusement / entertainment park at the shipyards, not to mention a naval ship and museum downtown, plus an aquarium at or near MOSH. I also love to kayak, bike and just enjoy outdoors. I just don't see why I can't have it all. I guess i'm just greedy.
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I have seen nor heard nothing from any Council person regarding this issue. Seems to me it is a case of Bussiness as Usual plus the disconnect between the Council and the public! Clean house and lets start over again!
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Redman is running unopposed.
Ah shit!, really?
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Well then, if we can all come to an agreement on a single name, maybe we can just do a write in to get Redman's ass outta there.
What does everyone think? would it work, or at least send a strong message?
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Thanks to everyone who has participated in the poll and to Scott Wilson for posting on this forum. I called Scott today after the Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting and shared with the Commission during Public comment that this Commission should be absolutely outraged that 2010-604 was not before Waterways. Again this is Shipyards/Landmar. The Public Trust in this community is being destroyed.
At Waterways there was a piece of legislation that was before the commission. The planning dept. was at the podium. The chair of Waterways is John Cresimbeni. He is also the chair of LUZ. During Q&A John asked the Planning Dept about another piece of legislation in Mandarin that had a Waterway component and asked the planning dept why wasn't that before Waterways.
Are you ready for this. The planning Dept said that he got a call from a higher up that he didn't want it before Waterways. WOW.
The planning dept. was ready to defend his position and did so. To his credit. The other Commissioners were outraged that certain pieces of legislation are being cherry picked to be brought before Waterways.
What a lapse in ethical judgement by someone.
During Public comment I immediately shared with them another example of cherry picking legislation and that is 2010-604. It's in two Committees RCD, Finance. Its not in Waterways. It should be in Waterways at the very least for a courtesy announcement that this will be coming back. Somebody needs to apologize to Waterways.
This is another Classic, Classic, example of why the Pier needs to be separate. And according to Steve Rohan and Cindy Laquidara the city council can do it by attaching an amendment to 2010-604.
This was 6 months ago.
What was the position and discussion of the civic council on this issue?
What has been the discussion and position of the current JCCI study Recession, Recovery, and Beyond on this issue?
Who is concerned and keeping score?
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City council meeting in less than 12 hours. The Public Trust continues to be crushed and destroyed in this community. Mayor Peyton does not want the pier. Its not happening with the leadership in District 4.
67 counties in the state of Florida and we are becoming recognized as a joke when it comes to economic opportunity to our Waterways. Legislative clarification is needed.
Ask the candidates.
Be concerned.
Keep score.
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Noone, playing devil's advocate, can you tell us why so many in power don't support your efforts? What is the reason for opposition? Something must be up for you to have to struggle so much with this. Are opponents just trying to maximize flexibility for future uses of the site and reluctant to box themselves in with your proposal? Are there other reasons they are opposed? They must be telling you a reason, right?
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No money is a theme oft repeated. Yet there is matching FIND money available. My plan doesn't take a lot of money to implement.
I was once told that the main holdup would be that no one wants to spend the money to re-survey the property in order to split a small parcel off from the main site. Yet, when I offered a surveyor who would do it for free in the interest of the public good, my offer was met with silence.
That is when you get an answer at all. Most of the time you get ignored.
The fight is far from over, but its clear that the political will is sufficiently lacking in this city. There WAS a plan for this pier, just as there WAS a plan for the Hogans Creek Greenbelt.
Clearly, new leadership is needed.
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The Public Trust has just been crushed. This is Shipyards III. stjr, Unfortunately for over a decade Mayors, council members, historic neighborhoods, hospitals, big business have had a fear or is it more of a control of what is perceived to be unbelievable generous access to the river but its not.
The pocket park, pocket pier theme is the best illustration. If you can have a pocket park then you can have a pocket pier. especially if its at a waterfront public access street end. Not to rehash these but what have you been told? Has anyone on this forum made a call? What have you been told? Obviously nothing is happening with the leadership in District 4. Gaffney in Dist.7 has also done nothing.
stjr, who is your councilmember? Have you made any call yourself? Have you ever attended a meeting? Not to pick on you. But has anyone made a call? and what have they said?
I must say that I think I have been patient. But the biggest support and I believe its growing is from leadership outside of Duval county especially as it relates to access and economic opportunity with our river.
There are numerous opportunities. The Pier is one. But what is happening on Hogans Creek is very shortly gaining media attention that will highlight the frustration on so many levels.
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I believe they are afraid to promote anything that could lead to a tax increase. I have almost no faith left in our elected representatives and believe that it will be up to local non-profit organizations and businesses to make things happen in Jacksonville. With a few exceptions, it seems that our 'leaders' are more like 'followers' and will only get on board with an idea once another group has worked incredibly hard to demonstrate its value.
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stjr, and everyone else that cares about access to our St. Johns River our American Heritage River it became known today on metrojacksonville that the pier is truly in Dist. 4 and that the city councilman Don Redman can introduce legislation that could immediately open it up for Public Access and Economic opportunity. It should be announced on all the news and wire services.
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stjr, and everyone else that cares about access to our St. Johns River our American Heritage River it became known today on metrojacksonville that the pier is truly in Dist. 4 and that the city councilman Don Redman can introduce legislation that could immediately open it up for Public Access and Economic opportunity. It should be announced on all the news and wire services.
With public preasure, and a constant reminders at council meetings, Is it possible that Redman would listen and try to put something of a sloution on the table?
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Huge campaign issue as well as a state and regional topic as it not only relates to access to our St. Johns River our American Heritage River but a bigger issue of the Public Trust Doctrine.
Be very concerned and keep score.
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stjr, and everyone else that cares about access to our St. Johns River our American Heritage River it became known today on metrojacksonville that the pier is truly in Dist. 4 and that the city councilman Don Redman can introduce legislation that could immediately open it up for Public Access and Economic opportunity. It should be announced on all the news and wire services.
With public preasure, and a constant reminders at council meetings, Is it possible that Redman would listen and try to put something of a sloution on the table?
urbaknight, You absolutely nail it.
Does everyone on this board realize that the pier can be separate from what is the former 44 acres that is Shipyards/Landmar? Councilman Redman can be the biggest hero or the biggest conspirator to restrict access to our St. Johns River our American Heritage River for the people of Jacksonville.
The state of Florida is watching.
The issue SHOULD, COULD and CAN be resolved before the next city council and Mayor takes office.
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I don't expect the current lame-duck Council to do anything. I would hope they do, however, because if Hogan wins, I expect him to sell the property - all of it - to "get valuable riverfront land back on the tax rolls" to prove his fiscal accountability. He has already said he will sell Preservation Land. This isn't even Preservation Land, and has no entanglements with other agencies like most of the PL does. Whether we recover the money we have already put into the Shipyards property is debatable, in today's market, I doubt it.
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I don't expect the current lame-duck Council to do anything. I would hope they do, however, because if Hogan wins, I expect him to sell the property - all of it - to "get valuable riverfront land back on the tax rolls" to prove his fiscal accountability. He has already said he will sell Preservation Land. This isn't even Preservation Land, and has no entanglements with other agencies like most of the PL does. Whether we recover the money we have already put into the Shipyards property is debatable, in today's market, I doubt it.
Of course he'll sell it..republicans prove themselves everytime...they could care less about public lands..thier name includes public but republicans could care less about anything public...they prove it with thier votes and actions.
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Right now Hogan and Brown have nothing to do with the pier right now or Preservation Park Lands. Did everyone just read Littlepage and Thomas Creek? There is a legislative window that is narrowing that can have the pier legislatively separate. As for the current lame duck council to do anything that is their prerogative. We are continually reminded about a global market, a regional market, a state market, Our 310 mile St. Johns River our American Heritage River that was a Federal Program.
The state of Florida is watching. We are a joke. Remember its not skill but just dumb luck that we got this back.
Remember Chan Krieger and Associates and their visit to Jacksonville on behalf of Downtown Vision. Our 680' Promised Downtown Tradeport Pier is a vertical access point that will narrow the River.
Remember Fred Kent the keynote speaker when John Reyes announced to the city the name change to Visit Jacksonville and the power of 10 separate containers for immediate vibrancy and the start of an organic cluster.
Be very concerned. The Public Trust has been crushed.
So who's next for paddling an urban Waterway in our Dowtown? The issue will continue to escalate throughout the state of Florida. As it should.
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The Times Union reports today that there is LOLLIPOP money in Dist.7 in the amount of $162,360 that can be used and is available for a Public Project. Councilman Gaffney could immediately use that money and introduce legislation and here is a suggestion.
1. $100,000 for Bay St. Pier Park
2. $62,360 for a canoe and kayak launch on Hogans Creek. What a benefit for Springfield and Jacksonville.
The state of Florida is watching.
This has nothing to do with Brown or Hogan.
Councilman Gaffney work with councilman Redman. Councilman Redman work with councilman Gaffney. Please. Somebody make it happen.
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I don't expect the current lame-duck Council to do anything. I would hope they do, however, because if Hogan wins, I expect him to sell the property - all of it - to "get valuable riverfront land back on the tax rolls" to prove his fiscal accountability. He has already said he will sell Preservation Land. This isn't even Preservation Land, and has no entanglements with other agencies like most of the PL does. Whether we recover the money we have already put into the Shipyards property is debatable, in today's market, I doubt it.
Of course he'll sell it..republicans prove themselves everytime...they could care less about public lands..thier name includes public but republicans could care less about anything public...they prove it with thier votes and actions.
You're just slightly less predictable than the sun rising in the east.
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District 7 stretches all the way up to I-295. I do know first hand that there are other neighborhoods in the district that have needs that the lollipop money would benefit. If he does anything with it, I doubt he drops it all into one single project. Any idea on how much money it would cost to open the pier up to public use?
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I have no idea on how much it would cost. The biggest benefit for Dist.7, Downtown, and the people of Jaqcksonville would be for Gaffney and Redman to introduce legislation to have it separate.
The Public Trust has been crushed. Its still a local issue. 16 days-city council, 17 days- Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting, 18 days-Board meeting of the St. Johns River Alliance.
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If we organize? What is first?
Look at the numbers on this poll. A clear mandate.
Councilman Redman, councilman Gaffney. Where are you?
If the Pier was separate and open now.
Exemptions for the pier would be....
1. oversite of the DDA or DIA ( I've got concerns ) (JCCI study soon to be released)
2. If you arrive by water you would be exempt from any fee, admission charge, entry fee, that may be created in the future by a revenue seeking flex space.
Same principle as the Zoo. If you arrive by boat its free.
Without exemptions ....
1. Nothing will happen for who knows how long.
2. You will be told when to open and close.
Feel free to add your own thoughts. Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting in 10 days. and the next day the Board meeting of the St. Johns River Alliance. We continue to talk about regional participation, global markets.
Very shortly I want to Show and Tell the other 66 counties in Florida why we will be saying Visit Jacksonville.
Daniel O'Byrne
Tera Meeks
The Honorable Stephen Joost
Paul Anderson
Hugh Greene
Neil Armingeon
Ron Littlepage
Herb Hiller
The Honorable Patricia Northey
The Honorable Marco Rubio
The Honorable Rick Scott
Lets paddle Hogans Creek and I'll show the Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier from the water and then you can tell everyone that we can't access it. WHY?
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If we organize? What is first?
Look at the numbers on this poll. A clear mandate.
Councilman Redman, councilman Gaffney. Where are you?
If the Pier was separate and open now.
Exemptions for the pier would be....
1. oversite of the DDA or DIA ( I've got concerns ) (JCCI study soon to be released)
2. If you arrive by water you would be exempt from any fee, admission charge, entry fee, that may be created in the future by a revenue seeking flex space.
Same principle as the Zoo. If you arrive by boat its free.
Without exemptions ....
1. Nothing will happen for who knows how long.
2. You will be told when to open and close.
Feel free to add your own thoughts. Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting in 10 days. and the next day the Board meeting of the St. Johns River Alliance. We continue to talk about regional participation, global markets.
Very shortly I want to Show and Tell the other 66 counties in Florida why we will be saying Visit Jacksonville.
Daniel O'Byrne
Tera Meeks
The Honorable Stephen Joost
Paul Anderson
Hugh Greene
Neil Armingeon
Ron Littlepage
Herb Hiller
The Honorable Patricia Northey
The Honorable Marco Rubio
The Honorable Rick Scott
Lets paddle Hogans Creek and I'll show the Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier from the water and then you can tell everyone that we can't access it. WHY?
When you use the word"Hohorable" are you being sarcastic?
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If we organize? What is first?
Look at the numbers on this poll. A clear mandate.
Councilman Redman, councilman Gaffney. Where are you?
If the Pier was separate and open now.
Exemptions for the pier would be....
1. oversite of the DDA or DIA ( I've got concerns ) (JCCI study soon to be released)
2. If you arrive by water you would be exempt from any fee, admission charge, entry fee, that may be created in the future by a revenue seeking flex space.
Same principle as the Zoo. If you arrive by boat its free.
Without exemptions ....
1. Nothing will happen for who knows how long.
2. You will be told when to open and close.
Feel free to add your own thoughts. Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting in 10 days. and the next day the Board meeting of the St. Johns River Alliance. We continue to talk about regional participation, global markets.
Very shortly I want to Show and Tell the other 66 counties in Florida why we will be saying Visit Jacksonville.
Daniel O'Byrne
Tera Meeks
The Honorable Stephen Joost
Paul Anderson
Hugh Greene
Neil Armingeon
Ron Littlepage
Herb Hiller
The Honorable Patricia Northey
The Honorable Marco Rubio
The Honorable Rick Scott
Lets paddle Hogans Creek and I'll show the Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier from the water and then you can tell everyone that we can't access it. WHY?
When you use the word"Hohorable" are you being sarcastic?
Not at all.
I'm just being respectful for the office obtained and the legislative power that can be associated with that power as it relates to a district, a city, a state, the USA.
To the Honorable Don Redman,
To the Honorable Dr. Johnny Gaffney
To the Honorable John Peyton
Somebody, please introduce legislation.
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If the pier property is located next to Berkman II (I think it is), would an exploratory conversation with Berkman be worthwhile regarding greening and walking the pier area?
Specifically, Berkman, as part of incentives received, agreed that Berkman II would be developed. Boy, seems like a ton of different modifications to the requirements for the incentives, particularly given the market, could be altered or scrapped in exchange for help on the pier.
Just a crazy brainstormed idea: Trying to increase receptivity to the idea.
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Berkman has nothing to do with the Shipyards property.
If a resident in Berkman Plaza would like to donate money to make Bay Street Pier Park a reality, please have them call me.
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I didn't think they were the same properties. I thought that Berkman could be waived from / have modification to its requirement to build Berkman II (or to have the number of required units reduced)* in exchange for some assistance with Bay Street Pier Park (since I thought it would also be advantageous for them to have that park nearby).
* My understanding is that, as part of incentives received, Berkman II needed to be built.
Just throwing it out there...crazy it may be.
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Okay...did some more leg work. Berkman I received some monetary incentives up front. Berkman II - it was agreed - would receive incentives but those incentives would come AFTER completion of Berkman II (looks like property tax reductions). Berkman II started on-time (per some agreed timeline). Berkman II has no agreement regarding completion date. Berkman has no incentive, can not really be incentivized, to do anything.
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Less than 2 days before the Waterways Commission meeting... (9 am at City Hall on Wednesday, April 13th)
I know that Noone will be there. Who else is coming? This a lot easier than a cleanup effort at Hogans Creek and we had over a dozen for those. A small crowd of support would be great.
Should we meet somewhere before to discuss strategy?
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I will try. I want that pier to be public and made available to small vendors, fisherman and boaters.
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A small crowd would be huge. And I agree with you JeffreyS that this Public Promise of a Pier needs to happen now.
The residents of Berkman would be ecstatic if whoever shows up and Redman, Bishop, or Crescimbeni introduce legislation to make it happen. I hope everyone understands that the legislative process to move this forward can happen Wend.
First on the agenda is our own St. Johns Riverkeeper, Neil Armingeon and the topic is St. Johns River Issues update.
If someone could give a call into Neil or Jimmy and ask them if he could make it an issue then that would wrap it up. It can only help.
I realize that the water withdrawl from central Florida, and the Georgia Pacific pipeline have been big on the list too.
But if Neil could even offer one sentence that the pier needs to be separate and used now would be huge. He is first on the agenda and the fact that our Riverkeeper made it a RIVER issue gives credibility for everyone else that shows up and shares their opinion when Public comment comes around.
After Neil, next on the agenda is Moncrief Creek Dredging. There will be a representative from Northshore Neighborhood Assoc. What should be interesting is how this will be responded to by the commission members.
A thank you in advance to anyone who can make it. I can't get it out of my mind that Field has someone that could do the survey for free that would save taxpayers money when the legislation is created. The pieces can come together.
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City council meeting tonight. Will Redman or Gaffney do anything? For the residents of Springfield I'm still in absolute shock and disbelief that after 4 years and knowing there is another 4 years that he is getting an absolute total free pass on this issue. Same can be said for Redman.
This issue will escalate to a statewide JOKE.
2010-675 look at the one amendment.
2010-856- A one mile ban of a vendor.
Palms Fish Camp-Huge red flag
Shipyards III about to happen again.
Waterways Wend.
St. Johns River Alliance Thurs.
FIND on Friday
Be concerned. Watch and see if anyone on our city council does anything.
The state of Florida is watching.
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Less than 2 days before the Waterways Commission meeting... (9 am at City Hall on Wednesday, April 13th)
I know that Noone will be there. Who else is coming? This a lot easier than a cleanup effort at Hogans Creek and we had over a dozen for those. A small crowd of support would be great.
Should we meet somewhere before to discuss strategy?
I think I can make it. One of the last connections to our past...just one pier for the public.
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Noone
I really tried to make efforts to be there tomorrow, but my schedule just will not permit it.
Why they never have Waterway meetings at a more reasonable hour for people to attend, I will never know.
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is there a meetings scheduled after this?
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A small crowd would be huge. And I agree with you JeffreyS that this Public Promise of a Pier needs to happen now.
The residents of Berkman would be ecstatic if whoever shows up and Redman, Bishop, or Crescimbeni introduce legislation to make it happen. I hope everyone understands that the legislative process to move this forward can happen Wend.
First on the agenda is our own St. Johns Riverkeeper, Neil Armingeon and the topic is St. Johns River Issues update.
If someone could give a call into Neil or Jimmy and ask them if he could make it an issue then that would wrap it up. It can only help.
I realize that the water withdrawl from central Florida, and the Georgia Pacific pipeline have been big on the list too.
But if Neil could even offer one sentence that the pier needs to be separate and used now would be huge. He is first on the agenda and the fact that our Riverkeeper made it a RIVER issue gives credibility for everyone else that shows up and shares their opinion when Public comment comes around.
After Neil, next on the agenda is Moncrief Creek Dredging. There will be a representative from Northshore Neighborhood Assoc. What should be interesting is how this will be responded to by the commission members.
A thank you in advance to anyone who can make it. I can't get it out of my mind that Field has someone that could do the survey for free that would save taxpayers money when the legislation is created. The pieces can come together.
Anyone going to the Civic Council presentation tonight at the Skyline Cafe?
Listen to the river component to the plan.
Will the Public Trust be restored? or will it be totally crushed and destroyed?
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There was a huge crowd at the Skyline Cafe listening to a recommendation that will if approved by the administration and current city council or the next city council and administration will take our community, our county, our city, our country, in a totally different direction.
There are a number of topics within the Jacksonville Civic Council recommendation of the creation of a DIA Downtown Improvement Authority but for me personally on this thread I don't won't to dilute it with other recommendations that were made.
I had the opportunity to ask a question about the Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier that is now one big parcel 2010-604 the former Shipyards/Landmar site. Basically I asked if the civic council at any time discussed or would consider keeping the pier outside of the control of the JEDC, DIA, so that it could open now and grow as an independent organic cluster.
The answer that I received and my interpretation is that NO. It will stay as one piece. If anyone else that was there and your interpretation is different please let me know. I was really trying to listen to the river component to the plan.
This was the ideal venue to ask the question.
I'm still very concerned and I will continue to tell everyone if you think for one second that we are getting more access and economic opportunity to our St. Johns River our American Heritage River we will be getting less.
Remember we are now PARKS, RECREATION, ENTERTAINMENT, and CONSERVATION.
The DIA and the created board will call the shots. Will everyone be given an equal opportunity to participate as it relates to the river Downtown? I say NO.
Councilman Redman Dist 4, Councilman Gaffney Dist.7, Councilman Jones Dist 9, you represent Downtown do something NOW legislatively for the collective constituents in your districts before the power is taken away from you.
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Congratulations to Mayor elect Alvin Brown.
City council meeting tonight. I'll be making a plea again that the Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier be separate from the other 44 acres that was Shipyards/Landmar. The Public Trust just totally destroyed in this community.
DIA, DDA, DEA, I hope its DOA. I've got some huge concerns. Look at the above thread. 30 days later and some of you that are members of this forum were there when I asked the question about the pier. After further research and discussion with the power brokers that will orchestrate this total Government takeover should be having some of you saying "Not so fast Jack".
Should the pier be outside the control of a DIA, DDA, DEA? I'd say yes. And watch it be wildly successful.
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Congratulations to Mayor elect Alvin Brown.
City council meeting tonight. I'll be making a plea again that the Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier be separate from the other 44 acres that was Shipyards/Landmar. The Public Trust just totally destroyed in this community.
DIA, DDA, DEA, I hope its DOA. I've got some huge concerns. Look at the above thread. 30 days later and some of you that are members of this forum were there when I asked the question about the pier. After further research and discussion with the power brokers that will orchestrate this total Government takeover should be having some of you saying "Not so fast Jack".
Should the pier be outside the control of a DIA, DDA, DEA? I'd say yes. And watch it be wildly successful.
Noone-my guess is engage directly with Transform Jacksonsonville on this.
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I would say they should be involved in making it available to small vendors, Fishing Boats and a small boat launch. Empower that area with a public multi use pier.
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Congratulations to Mayor elect Alvin Brown.
City council meeting tonight. I'll be making a plea again that the Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier be separate from the other 44 acres that was Shipyards/Landmar. The Public Trust just totally destroyed in this community.
DIA, DDA, DEA, I hope its DOA. I've got some huge concerns. Look at the above thread. 30 days later and some of you that are members of this forum were there when I asked the question about the pier. After further research and discussion with the power brokers that will orchestrate this total Government takeover should be having some of you saying "Not so fast Jack".
Should the pier be outside the control of a DIA, DDA, DEA? I'd say yes. And watch it be wildly successful.
Noone-my guess is engage directly with Transform Jacksonsonville on this.
Transform Jacksonville-Where are you on this one?
That's right- You need to be a 501-C
In two days just saw this one. 2010-364 the RAM (Riverside Arts Market) will be given an option on 3 -10 year leases for a buck a year. Sign me up. New floating dock. Was this before Waterways?
Its ready for council and Oh by the way there is a Waterways Commission meeting the next day in council chambers that will be taking up another piece of legislation that was cherry picked 2010-239. The Public Trust has just been totally destroyed in this community.
See in the Times Union Money section Paul Anderson? I like Paul Anderson. He's traveling the world. Redman, Do something! I'll be traveling the state. Don't Visit Jacksonville! If you do then allow me to show you the Corruption District.
CityLife on another thread you talk about Shad and the money for the soccer field. How about the recent Jim Piggott with our own WJXT and not being allowed in to see the potential $300,000 damage to the fire station at Kids Campus. Its taxpayer dollars and you should be outraged. Transform Jax should immediately demand that you be allowed to see what the heck the problem is and every Historical Society needs to immediately go with a representative and if its shown that its only $50,000 in repairs and someone is just inflating the numbers then you know what.
There is your $250,000 dollar seed money for Klutho Park. Are you going to do anything? Are you at least going to try? City council meeting in two days. There is an opportunity for Public comment.
Just ask. I'll support you 100%
Palms Creek Fish Camp! Palms Creek Fish Camp! Palms Creek Fish Camp!
But back to the pier. Former city council woman Suzanne Jenkins introduced 2005-207 and the city of Jacksonville and the community that she represented will be for ever grateful.
Current Jacksonville city councilman Don Redman is in a legislative position to do something. The Public Trust Doctrine. The pier has high Public Value and as such needs to be legislatively recognized.
Right now he can Make it happen.
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"Public Pier" outcome will be propelled by forces far beyond one individual or one Internet Forum.
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I just don't see how you can spend half your time online talking about government 'waste', and ridiculing any idea that involves taxmoney, and the other half of your time begging for everyone to support using tax dollars for recreation on the project that you personally like.
Don't you see a basic conflict in the two Noones?
Noone who claims we are completely out of money,.....meet Noone who says we can afford 250 thousand on recreational facilities.
discuss amongst yourselves.
I could sworn Noone is the living Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.
-Josh
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In less than 12 hours a vote on 2011-364. RAM a 10 year lease for the city for a buck a year. New floating dock. Not before Waterways. Why? Mr. Hyde
Palms Creek Fish Camp? Palms Creek Fish Camp! Almost 10 years of history. Boat ramp, Preservation Park, City just pulled the plug on the owner. Who and Why? Lawsuit and payout for the rest. owner who never opened up his doors? Dr. Jekyll
Waterways meeting tomorrow and the release of the newest JCCI study, Recession, Recovery and Beyond.
Shipyards/Landmar the pier can still be legislatively protected. The Public Trust Doctrine. 2010-604
How many council members at the political Hobnob back in November at the Hyatt said that it could happen. The Public Trust just totally crushed in this community.
No. I'm not asking for Public money.
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Waterways meeting in 4 hours. Anyone going? Will be reminding Commission members of more cherry picked pieces of legislation that is circumventing this voluntary body. So wrong.
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meet this man and see, feel his enthusiatiasm and sincerety!
Scrutiny isn't a crime.
judge him by his posts and you might miss the sarcasm.
PALMS FISH CAMP PALMS FISH CAMP PALMS FISH CAMP.
do your homework folks.
no one can do it for you.
"Corruption District"!!
I love it absolutely love it.
Where is that exactly on Bay St?
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The Corruption District may be a full day tour.
City council meeting tonight.
Palms Fish Camp, Palms Fish Camp, Palms Fish Camp, Who is getting fired? Who is getting the promotion? Who wants to go and do a site inspection? I'm serious. Especially if you are a news organization outside of Duval county.
Councilman Redman, Please do something. You introduced legislation to move Halloween. Introduce legislation to keep the pier separate. You then withdrew the legislation to move Halloween. You can then withdraw the legislation to separate the pier. This will at the very least give the impression that you care. This is Shipyards/Landmar this was an issue when you ran for city council. Institutional knowledge.
Can't wait for the Fireworks and the ones this weekend on our St. Johns River our American Heritage River.
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In 13 days the next meeting of the Jacksonville Waterways Commission. There wasn't a meeting in July but I was fotunate to meet some of the commissioners of FIND for their July meeting in Nassau county. I truly find inspiration from the Commissioners representing the east coast of the state of Florida.
It is almost 3 years later. 3 years. 3 years and I told some of the commissioners that I still don't have a sponsor for a pocket pier, floating dock at a waterfront Public Access street end. They are in shock. I am too. 67 counties in Florida. The Public Trust in Jacksonville just crushed.
Any news media outside of Duval county want to see our Waterways that you won't be able to access unless your a 501-c? Will it happen with the new Mayor and new council? Be concerned.
Anyone want to see Hogans Creek, Our Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier AKA Jacksonville's Tradeport Pier. Can't wait to meet you Mr. Paul Anderson. Lets go under the Times Union on McCoys Creek.
Daniel O'Byrne lets go under the Hyatt and we'll tell everyone to then "VISIT Jacksonville."
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In 8 days Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting. Don Redman is the chair. Redistricting occurs every 10 years. The pier is currently in Dist.4. Councilman Redman is not only the Chair of Waterways but this opportunity for Public Access is in his district too. WHAT AN OPPORTUNITY to do something before it is potentially legislatively lost forever.
Let history show that it was councilman Redman who single handidly through his non legislative actions crushed the hopes and dreams of any potential economic opportunity to our St. Johns River our American Heritage River in Duval county.
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City council meeting tonight Waterways the next day. Will councilman Redman do anything?
The state of Florida is watching.
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In less than 12 hours a vote on 2011-364. RAM a 10 year lease for the city for a buck a year. New floating dock. Not before Waterways. Why? Mr. Hyde
Palms Creek Fish Camp? Palms Creek Fish Camp! Almost 10 years of history. Boat ramp, Preservation Park, City just pulled the plug on the owner. Who and Why? Lawsuit and payout for the rest. owner who never opened up his doors? Dr. Jekyll
Waterways meeting tomorrow and the release of the newest JCCI study, Recession, Recovery and Beyond.
Shipyards/Landmar the pier can still be legislatively protected. The Public Trust Doctrine. 2010-604
How many council members at the political Hobnob back in November at the Hyatt said that it could happen. The Public Trust just totally crushed in this community.
No. I'm not asking for Public money.
City council meeting tonight. Will councilman Redman Dist.4 do anything?
State of Florida and our Regional Partners are watching.
Vote No on 2011-400
The Pier is the number 1 Public Access Point that needs to Happen Now.
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A picture speaks a thousand words. Noone, I think you're going to have to not only build visual support for doing something with the pier, you'll also need an economic argument with some numbers backing your vision. A few successful examples in other communties across the US would go a long way as well. I think these things will help what you're lobbying for.
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A picture speaks a thousand words.
And legislation is the dialogue that will Make it Happen. 2011-560-Shipyards. New legislation that is being introduced at the next city council meeting. Good? Bad? Any thoughts? Anybody.
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The Aug. 31 2011 Waterways FIND subcommittee meeting was HUGE. GIGANTIC, GARGANTUAN, announcements coming soon. 2 1/2 hour meeting. 2011-560 will be in Waterways 9/14
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Visit Jacksonville!
Visit the Pier!
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Visit Jacksonville!
Visit the Pier!
Jacksonville's Front Porch........Southern Style.
Line up the food trucks on the Pier
Will be in Waterways in 6 hours.
Everyone in Jacksonville should be asking who will be the Jacksonville city council member that will provide the help so that everyone will have an opportunity for Public Access and Economic opportunity to our St. Johns River our American Heritage River a Federal Initiative
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Visit Jacksonville!
Visit the Pier!
Jacksonville's Front Porch........Southern Style.
Line up the food trucks on the Pier
Will be in Waterways in 6 hours.
Everyone in Jacksonville should be asking who will be the Jacksonville city council member that will provide the help so that everyone will have an opportunity for Public Access and Economic opportunity to our St. Johns River our American Heritage River a Federal Initiative
Hey man - I couldn't sleep last night so I flipped on the TV and I think I saw you speaking to the City Council. Was that you?
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Yes that was me getting my butt kicked and then again today at Waterways. 2011-560- $23,250,000 Shipyards/Landmar and we will be just saying bye,bye to that money. Attach just one amendment that even gives the appearence that our city cares about Public Access to our St. Johns River our American Heritage River a Federal Initiative.
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3 hours Rules on 2011-560 will an amendment be attached? It should.
Jacksonville.......Be concerned.
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A year later. With redistricting Redman Dist.4 will lose the legislative power to introduce legislation. Look at the poll. An amendment. Don't be afraid of amendments. They are attached all the time. The Public Trust has been destroyed and leading the conspiracy is Dist.4
Councilman Redman attach an amendment to 2011-560 that can be used with a FIND match on the Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier that is currently in your district.
Be concerned. This is an issue that all our Regional Partners need to be made aware of.
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The pier needs to be legislatively separated so as to outside the complete and total control of the yet to be created Downtown Independent Authority. This is Shipyards III. The pier should be looked at as the FREE parking spot of the St. Johns River our American Heritage River a Federal Initiative.
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Waterways meeting in 8 1/2 hours. Redman- Occupy the Pier! Please.
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2011-554 Redistricting legislation. Shipyards III. Dist. 4 citycouncilman Don Redman is leading the conspiracy to deny Public Access and Economic opportunity to our St. Johns River our American Heritage River a Federal Initiative by not keeping the Promised 680'Downtown Public Pier separate.
Palms Fish Camp.
FIND
Regional Partners.
Who wants to be a 501-c? I'm serious.
Look at this pole. Who wants to really put this issue to the voters?
Who has the guts on MJ to form a 5 member committee and put this issue on the Nov. 2012 ballot?
I'm Noone. Need 4 more.
Will become a National news story and it should. The Public Trust just crushed.
Like Vivian Harrell says when describing Hogans Creek as a cleanup site. Its not a fluff location.
The Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier is not a fluff issue.
Will we be telling the world to
VISIT JACKSONVILLE
or
DON'T VISIT JACKSONVILLE
Legislation is the dialogue of the community and its not happening.
Be concerned.
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Going from the minutes of the June 15, 2011 Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting.
In Attendance: Council members Don Redman (Chair), John Crescimbeni (Vice Chair); Commissioners Gary Anderson, Lane Burnett, Caryn Carreiro, Edward Fleming Jr., Raymond Pringle Jr., Scott Shine, Stephan Swann, Penny Thompson; Captain Jim Suber, Waterways Coordinator; Drs. Quinton White and Gerry Pinto, Jacksonville University; Asst. General Counsel Kristina Nelson; Jody McDaniel, Planning and Development Planning Dept.; Tera Meeks, Chief,Waterfront Management Programming, Recreation & Community Services Dept.; Charles Parks; Carlton Higginbotham, Duval Soil & Water Conservation District; Charles Hubsch, Environmental Engineer/Scientist, Environmental & Compliance Dept, Geoffrey Sample, St. Johns River Water Management District; David Kaufman, Jaxport; Ralph Hodges, Sierra Club; Captain Mike Getchell, Jacksonville Marine Transportation Exchange; John Nooney; Jessica Stephens, Legislative Assistant; John J. Jackson, Council Research Division.
There was no meeting in July. Waterway legislation went through city council. Don't you just love it?
Going from the minutes of the August 10, 2011 Waterways Commission meeting.
In Attendance: Council members Don Redman (Chair), John Crescimbeni (Vice Chair), Bill Bishop; Commissioners Gary Anderson,Lane Burnett, Caryn Carreiro, Edward Fleming Jr., Raymond Pringle Jr., Scott Shine, Stephen Swann, State Representative Lake Ray; Commissioner Penny Thompson was excused; Asst. General Counsel Kristina Nelson, Drs. Quinton White and Jerry Pinto JU, Captain Jim Suber, Waterways Coordinator COJ; Dana Morton, Vince Siebold, Gary Weise, Environmental & Compliance Dept.; Jody McDaniel, Planning Dept.; Melissa Long, State of Florida, Dept. of Environmental Protection; Neil Armingeon, St. Johns Riverkeeper; Derek Busby, Geoffrey Sample, St. Johns River Water Management District; Ralph Hodges, Jay Caddy, Tom Ingram, John Nooney; Nadia Gordon, FWC; Tera Meeks, Chief, Waterfront Management Programming, Recreation & Community Services Dept; Mario Rubio, Mayors Office; Jessica Stephens, Legislative Asst; John J. Jackson, Council Research Division.
In yesterdays Times Union on b-4 in the metro a story.
Next for Brown:
Parks changes
Palms Fish Camp
Shipyards/Landmar/Pier
Regional Partners
Who wants to be a 501-c? I'm serious.
Be concerned.
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What would it take - or is it even possible - for this to be put on the ballot and let the voters decide directly?
From reading the last few pages of this thread - I have learned two things:
1) Your passion for this is unbelievable and I am grateful that you are fighting for the cause.
2) Our current elected officials aren't going to take any action on it.
Forgive me if the answer is in the first 6 pages - didn't have patience this morning to go back and read the entire thing.
Yes this issue can be put on the ballot.
Jacksonville Waterways FIND subcommittee meeting on follow up of canoe and kayak launches Nov. 2 10 am ste 425 at city hall.
Councilman Redman where are you? The pier Dist.4....... Shipyards III
The Public Trust is being just totally crushed.
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I think we need to give this Council a chance. Lori's editorial provided us with valuable information on being a strong advocate. Let's face it - if there was more community support for Hogans Creek it would be happening.
Our focus should be on gathering that support and then bringing it to Council.
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I think we need to give this Council a chance. Lori's editorial provided us with valuable information on being a strong advocate. Let's face it - if there was more community support for Hogans Creek it would be happening.
Our focus should be on gathering that support and then bringing it to Council.
I agree and I think Noone is gathering support on every front he can. I would love the pier to be public and will start lobbing for it. Sorry it has taken me so long to get on board Noone.
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This topic makes my skin crawl.
To echo the words of one of our recent mayors, essentially boiling down what many of you here have said,
Concerning assets and attractions in our region, in our county, if we only have ONE of something, it should be DOWNTOWN!
The beach has its public pier and the river should have its own public pier downtown for the public.
Why is this is even up for debate among our council members and legislative body at large is far beyond my realm of comprehension.
Again the word temporary concerns me.
We do not need a temporary park at the ship yards.
the pier needs to be front and center,
with permanent access for all.
From the curb at bay street all the way out to the riverwalk Connection / extension.
Fwiw IMHO.
Regardless of one's status as a wage earner a home owner job seeker or renter.
None of that should matter.
this prized piece of land truly needs to remain accessible for all to enjoy.
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In perpetuity _
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This topic makes my skin crawl.
To echo the words of one of our recent mayors, essentially boiling down what many of you here have said,
Concerning assets and attractions in our region, in our county, if we only have ONE of something, it should be DOWNTOWN!
The beach has its public pier and the river should have its own public pier downtown for the public.
Why is this is even up for debate among our council members and legislative body at large is far beyond my realm of comprehension.
This is a republican ran city and republicans are'nt really that happy about public things..they have defunded public spaces and schools...why would they vote for a public pier.
Again the word temporary concerns me.
We do not need a temporary park at the ship yards.
the pier needs to be front and center,
with permanent access for all.
From the curb at bay street all the way out to the riverwalk Connection / extension.
Fwiw IMHO.
Regardless of one's status as a wage earner a home owner job seeker or renter.
None of that should matter.
this prized piece of land truly needs to remain accessible for all to enjoy.
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WHOA THERE NOW GARDEN GUY
I SEE YOU TWEAKE MY.POST A BIT
NO LONGER A QUOTE
IM NOT BASHING ANYONE.
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A picture speaks a thousand words.
And legislation is the dialogue that will Make it Happen. 2011-560-Shipyards. New legislation that is being introduced at the next city council meeting. Good? Bad? Any thoughts? Anybody.
Can you start a petition to get this on the ballot? I'll sign it.
Are you still up to kayak the river? I was just waiting for the weather to get cooler, but I'm able to do it now.
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I noticed Action News out there filming. It looked like they were going to do a story about the new grass being torn up by parking. I will sign a petition. I will contact the council this week on keeping the pier public.
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I saw the Action News story and the Administration will have HUGE announcements coming as to our Parks. Palms Fish Camp??? Anybody!
Tomorrow at 10 am 4th floor city hall Jacksonville Waterways FIND subcommittee meeting on canoe and kayak launches throughout Duval county. Open to the Public. Will be making another plea for the Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier.
Look at all the new players and have been removed from the legislative history of this issue.
Mayor Alvin Brown
Tera Meeks
Paul Anderson
Daniel O'Byrne
AAron Bowman
Neil Armingeon
Mark Middlebrook
Governor Scott
Councilman Redman has all the legislative power in the world to introduce legislation today and Make the Pier happen today. It could be a recommendation that comes out of tomorrows meeting. Councilman Redman is the Chair of Waterways, the Pier is in his District and he can direct any action that can then be taken up for discussion and moved forward to the full Jacksonville city council.
JeffreyS, urbaknight the petition drive can move forward in Dec. After council redistricting. Appreciate your support. I hope that Don and Scott do something. Its a lob pitch that they should just knock it out of the park.
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Is there an area anywhere around McCoy's creek for a launch site?
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I'd say yes.
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I think I will do some scouting this weekend, and try to identify one or more possibilities.
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anyone down to go out Sunday morning?
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Absolutely.
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Is there an area anywhere around McCoy's creek for a launch site?
Almost anywhere along McCoys Creek Boulevard, almost the entire length from I-95 to Stockton Street, but the run from Stockton to the CSX is more beer cans then water. A thorough cleaning might make it navigable all the way to Stockton. A clean paddle from the river to stockton would make it long enough to be an attraction.
While I would invest in both McCoys Creek and Hogans Creek, unless there is a comprehensive redevelopment and cleaning of these waterfronts, you really wouldn't want to promote it. Welcome to Jacksonville fellow paddlers, "Come and paddle our open sewers," just doesn't have much appeal.
OCKLAWAHA
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The Nov.2, 2011 Jacksonville Waterways FIND subcommittee meeting on canoe and kayak launches was sparsley attended. Started at 10 and I'll just go right from the list of current submitted projects for the upcoming Nov. 9, Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting at 9:30 in council chambers.
The Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier is not on the list. WHERE IS The ADMINISTRATION? SHIPYARDS III
1. Zoo Dock construction
2.Mayport Docks
3.Ft. George Inlet
4.Harborview Dredging
5.Sisters ICW dock Dredging
6.Reed Island
7.Charles Reese BR-Dock
8.Zoo Pkwy. Property
9.Atlantic Marine canoe launch
10.Exchange Island Dock
11. Continuation of Blue Cypress boardwalk
12.lighting at BR
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What are they doing at Fort George?
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Dredging.
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Is this the dredging that the port needs to accommodate the bigger ships? Ya know, the big project at Mile point, I believe that's what it's called.
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The Nov.2, 2011 Jacksonville Waterways FIND subcommittee meeting on canoe and kayak launches was sparsley attended. Started at 10 and I'll just go right from the list of current submitted projects for the upcoming Nov. 9, Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting at 9:30 in council chambers.
The Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier is not on the list. WHERE IS The ADMINISTRATION? SHIPYARDS III
1. Zoo Dock construction
2.Mayport Docks
3.Ft. George Inlet
4.Harborview Dredging
5.Sisters ICW dock Dredging
6.Reed Island
7.Charles Reese BR-Dock
8.Zoo Pkwy. Property
9.Atlantic Marine canoe launch
10.Exchange Island Dock
11. Continuation of Blue Cypress boardwalk
12.lighting at BR
you don't consider it a small victory that the City is considering additional access points to the river?
I thought this article from yesterday's T-U sounded promising
http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2011-11-03/story/activists-get-government-interested-adding-more-st-johns-river-access
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Well,it is nice to know of all the proposed improvements, but it seems to me, the City is losing out on something that could enhance anykind of "Downtown Attraction"............its there and pretty much being ignored by all! With the exception of a few who see possibilities! I wonder just what the area representatives are thinking? Mine lives at the Beaches and could care less! Not very progressive, open minded or forward looking!
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It's not a victory in any way, no. It's a step, and frankly still a very small step in the overall scheme of things. That being said, we all owe Rachel and Joe a big thank you for their efforts... and I specifically think they deserve a lot of credit for their work over at Exchange Club Island. They're next cleanup at Exchange Club Island is November 19th if anyone wants to join!
I think they need to include Hogans Creek, McCoys Creek, hand lanched craft access at the RAM dock and the Bay Street Pier Park into the discussion in a very, very big way.
Additionally, the current Southbank Riverwalk does not allow for hand launched vessel access... this should be rectified immediately in the renovation plans(it is not now)... and can be done so with very inexpensive options that don't include expensive floating docks(specifically at the bend near the Peninsula which offers a very easy construction opportunity for a beachead access point).
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The Nov.2, 2011 Jacksonville Waterways FIND subcommittee meeting on canoe and kayak launches was sparsely attended. Started at 10 and I'll just go right from the list of current submitted projects for the upcoming Nov. 9, Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting at 9:30 in council chambers.
The Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier is not on the list. WHERE IS The ADMINISTRATION? SHIPYARDS III
1. Zoo Dock construction
2.Mayport Docks
3.Ft. George Inlet
4.Harborview Dredging
5.Sisters ICW dock Dredging
6.Reed Island
7.Charles Reese BR-Dock
8.Zoo Pkwy. Property
9.Atlantic Marine canoe launch
10.Exchange Island Dock
11. Continuation of Blue Cypress boardwalk
12.lighting at BR
you don't consider it a small victory that the City is considering additional access points to the river?
I thought this article from yesterday's T-U sounded promising
http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2011-11-03/story/activists-get-government-interested-adding-more-st-johns-river-access
Activist Tom Ingram fired up the Jacksonville Waterways FIND subcommittee meeting on potential canoe and kayak launches.
Two parts to his list. First had to do with Maintenance level improvements.
1. Sidney J. Gefen Riverwalk Park
2. Krestul Park
3. County Dock Road/Walter Jones Park
4. Water Taxi Dock east of Hyatt and West of Berkman
His second list
1. Stockton Park
2. Memorial Park Riverside
3. River Road (San Marco Beach)
4.Floating Dock at Riverside Arts Market
5. Ortega cul de sacs
6. Rink Park -Waterfront public access street end. pocket park-pocket pier.
7. Southbank Riverwalk
8. Walter Jones Park
In 5 days he will make a full presentation to the Jacksonville Waterways Commission on these potential projects. Good stuff.
Tom, challenged a lot of the recommendations. There was good discussion. You have to realize that there are just so many dollars and its a match for each project. Do you focus on two or three big projects or focus on a number of small projects? There were only 4 people from the Public in attendance. Another new person was Capt. Roger Bump a champion kayak fisherman and who also added to the debate.
Ock, Just to let you know I through out Tomahawk Park for consideration as a kayak and canoe launch.
Also of note was a project for Arlington River Dredge that was withdrawn. Dist.4 Don Redman was not at the meeting and Scott asked about this project and had no idea that it was going to be withdrawn. It was introduced in 2009. Scott wasn't there for the whole meeting. That's a tough break for Dist.4
Tera Meeks was there with the Preservation projects and left early. Nobody from the parks dept.
The city of Jacksonville should be just outraged about the pier not being on the list. Yeah Scott I know the city owns the PIER and there is no reason to break it up. Yeah! Well the city owns the rest of these properties to and some have different rules than others. Whats the deal with Palms Fish Camp??? Anybody?
The Pier is not on the list. What a joke. How would that have scored with the GRANTS POINTS? I only spoke once and even pleaded to just stick it on the list even if you give it zero points. Peoples who's suggestions were offered are on the list. Except mine. Scott had left but Capt. Jim Suber offered that given what has happened in the past with Shipyards and Landmar that now may not be a good time to do something. So was Capt. Suber speaking for the Administration? Hey Scott! You and Don got taken off the list so how about putting the PROMISED 680' DOWNTOWN PUBLIC PIER on the list. I couldn't help but mention that isn't it a good thing that we blew through $400,000 of that new sod that we just layed down on the Shipyards/Landmar property.
tufsu1 it all sounds promising. But with redistricting and a total takeover by a new Authority and that the Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier is not on the list that will be submitted for consideration to the Commissioners of FIND appointed by the Governor representing the east coast of the state of Florida I'll be soon telling the other 66 counties of Florida
DON"T VISIT JACKSONVILLE- Its not a DOWNTOWN DESTINATION if you wanted to access it on our St. Johns River our American Heritage River a Federal Initiative.
Anyone going to the board meeting of the St. Johns River Alliance Nov.17 1-3 pm in Taverres Florida? If you drive I'll pay for the gas and treat you at Robert's Eatery. I'm serious.
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Many, if not most folks who know we might rather jokingly state that though I may not be the sharpest tack in the box I ain't no dummy.
I am from jacksonville.
Born and raised here in a town where we pull over for a funeral procession and y'all is a proper pronoun and ain't unfortunately is a word.
I understand that the 680 foot pier may never have the exact vibe of santa monica, but truly, all kidding aside, the space - the 680' PUBLIC PIER - should be must be a passive park in its first iteration of public usage but should forever remain a parcel that begins at the curb of bay street and runs contiguously out to the riverwalk extension.
Who here sees it differently?
Isn't that with these formus are about ?? The vetting of issues !?
well speak up! Time is definitely of the essence, folks.
It is super easy to take 5 minutes and email Every city councilperson!
Take 5 more email the waterways commission!!
Find 2 or 3 more minutes in your day and shoot an email to the Mayor himself!
North florida land trust perhaps.
I truly believe there are a vast great many people who read the information posted here on these blogs that think Jacksonville can improve to become something better more sophisticated more diverse.
this crown jewel of prime property downtown needs to be legislativly protected for all of the public to enjoy permanently.
I know I am not alone in seeing this strip of land as being a hinge pin for the future of downtown.
Just this 1 strip to be a park in all perpetuity.
Not tied to any potential speculative un necessary construction.
Seriously I welcome the challenge of an opposing viewpoint.
Please I beg you anyone who reads this thread and thinks that the 680 foot pier should not for ever be a festive park atmosphere, ante up, state your case for why we would ever need to agree to allowing a developer to build anything else on top of it.
Ps look at berkman ii.
We're at a phase now where we need outdoor places to soak in the sun and recreate.
We pay taxes we deserve our waterfront park in our downtown.
And I'll step down off my soapbox for the morning.
Top of the day to you all!
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I think you all may be still going the wrong way about the Shipyards pier. Imo, it will never make the list, unless a vision can be sold behind closed doors showing what it can become, along with a preliminary cost estimate of immediate incremental improvements to make it accessible. For example, Councilman Jim Love asked me for my opinion on the space. However, he's interested in something with more detail and numbers that could be studied and used to support such arguments. It's typically that way with any subject one would be interested in gaining public support for. With that said, if you all have ideas in your head floating around, I'd be more than willing to sit down with you to help get them in a graphic / rendering oriented format to assist in your efforts.
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Btw, I'll be downtown for a good while today between 9:30am and 3:30pm or so. I'll be researching at the public library for a couple of MJ articles I'm working on, taking images for the Nov. construction update and making a GIS graphic for Transform Jax's NewTown efforts. If anyone is interesting in meeting up at the Shipyards for a little while and discussing this issue, let me know.
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Lake, Appreciate the offer on meeting at SHIPYARDS III. That is what it will need to escalate to if its not on the FIND list. Its just a list.
CG7 and Field will be scouting out McCoys Creek which I believe can happen immediately too. And Ock the paddle under the Times Union Bldg would be one of the biggest urban waterway DESTINATIONS to rival any Waterway in an urban Downtown. I'll promote the heck out of it. Bring your blue bag and lets have fun.
Craig, Mike, you guys can have McCoys put on the FIND list. I believe there is city property next to the creek and it can be as easy as Tomahawk Park. Craig, Field can't paddle or check it out today or tomorrow conditions are a little sporty anyway but I will soon and I'll report back to everyone.
Field submit it as a FIND project and see if you get ignored. City council meeting Tues. and Waterways Wend. Hey! Lets have a Pub Crawl to McCoys! I'm in. And if the city council hears about it I can hear them all right now "We need another round over here!" Lets Make It Happen.
Lake, You can submit something for the pier. You know we will all support you. Its just a list. But it definitely tells the people of Florida that the Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier is a true DESTINATION.
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Lake, You can submit something for the pier. You know we will all support you. Its just a list. But it definitely tells the people of Florida that the Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier is a true DESTINATION.
Unfortunately, I'm involved with too many things at the moment to tackle the Shipyards pier issue on my own anytime soon. However, this has been a major priority of yours for years now, with little to no movement forward on what you've been posting daily on MJ, from the city's standpoint. Although my time is currently limited for this issue, what I am offering is to provide you with visual backup support to sell your or anyone's ideas for the concept.
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I walked the Shipyards today, and unless you actually get out on the property you don't really get a sense of how great of a public area it could be. I know everyone has their own ideas of what would make it a part of making downtown a destination. I know our friend noone has been advocating for the promised pier, but that isn't enough for me. I think the entire property from BerkmanII to Metro Park should remain a public park and garden. It will take some public/private money to get it done right, but this is too great of an opportunity to just let go. Don't take my word for it ,walk the property yourself and you will be hooked too.
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I walked the Shipyards today, and unless you actually get out on the property you don't really get a sense of how great of a public area it could be. I know everyone has their own ideas of what would make it a part of making downtown a destination. I know our friend noone has been advocating for the promised pier, but that isn't enough for me. I think the entire property from BerkmanII to Metro Park should remain a public park and garden. It will take some public/private money to get it done right, but this is too great of an opportunity to just let go. Don't take my word for it ,walk the property yourself and you will be hooked too.
****** Core Wild Lands ******
".....walk the property...... "
- CG7
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I walked the Shipyards today, and unless you actually get out on the property you don't really get a sense of how great of a public area it could be. I know everyone has their own ideas of what would make it a part of making downtown a destination. I know our friend noone has been advocating for the promised pier, but that isn't enough for me. I think the entire property from BerkmanII to Metro Park should remain a public park and garden. It will take some public/private money to get it done right, but this is too great of an opportunity to just let go. Don't take my word for it ,walk the property yourself and you will be hooked too.
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I walked the Shipyards today, and unless you actually get out on the property you don't really get a sense of how great of a public area it could be. I know everyone has their own ideas of what would make it a part of making downtown a destination. I know our friend noone has been advocating for the promised pier, but that isn't enough for me. I think the entire property from BerkmanII to Metro Park should remain a public park and garden. It will take some public/private money to get it done right, but this is too great of an opportunity to just let go. Don't take my word for it ,walk the property yourself and you will be hooked too.
"We as a society have failed to take notice of the aesthetics of the New American Landscape.We have failed to see the truth about our aesthetic condition.We have permitted both the city and countryside to become ugly monuments to commercialism,materialism,and bad taste.
The aesthetic heritage is too important to be left any longer in the hands of the usual architectural critics,urban planners,and environmental activists.
We must rethink the tired and restrictive notion that the only truly beautiful landscapes are those of spectacular snowballed mountains or vista such as may be found in National Parks.Fascinated with a particular grandeur,we have focused on the spectacle of place rather than on infinitely varied places."
- John Miller; Ecotopia Narcissim and the New American Landscape
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I walked the Shipyards today, and unless you actually get out on the property you don't really get a sense of how great of a public area it could be. I know everyone has their own ideas of what would make it a part of making downtown a destination. I know our friend noone has been advocating for the promised pier, but that isn't enough for me. I think the entire property from BerkmanII to Metro Park should remain a public park and garden. It will take some public/private money to get it done right, but this is too great of an opportunity to just let go. Don't take my word for it ,walk the property yourself and you will be hooked too.
IMHO the riverwalk should be extended to Metro park and the pier should be a part of the riverwalk, BUT the rest of the shipyards property really really needs to end up on the tax rolls. The downtown tax increment district needs more revenue coming in and private businesses operating on that property will help drive economic growth in the CBD.
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I think that is the best use UL.
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I walked the Shipyards today, and unless you actually get out on the property you don't really get a sense of how great of a public area it could be. I know everyone has their own ideas of what would make it a part of making downtown a destination. I know our friend noone has been advocating for the promised pier, but that isn't enough for me. I think the entire property from BerkmanII to Metro Park should remain a public park and garden. It will take some public/private money to get it done right, but this is too great of an opportunity to just let go. Don't take my word for it ,walk the property yourself and you will be hooked too.
IMHO the riverwalk should be extended to Metro park and the pier should be a part of the riverwalk, BUT the rest of the shipyards property really really needs to end up on the tax rolls. The downtown tax increment district needs more revenue coming in and private businesses operating on that property will help drive economic growth in the CBD.
Cuba Gooding Jr "You think were fighting, I Think were finally talking." Tonight at city council is another lob ball pitch for city councilman Dist.4 Don Redman to introduce legislation to keep the promised 680' Downtown Public Pier outside the control of a yet voted on and created Downtown Authority. He had an opportunity with 2010-604 and Cindy Laquidara And Steve Rohan were right there telling Don and Scott that they could do it. Didn't happen.
Tonight at city council is another opportunity for the current chair of Waterways and the sitting Dist.4 representative who's district includes the Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier to attach an amendment to 2011-554 to have the pier legislatively separated. The fact that it is not on the FIND list should be the biggest red flag for Duval county and the commissioners of FIND appointed by the Governor representing the decisions that are made for the citizens of the state of Florida. The Public Trust just absolutely crushed in Duval county.
Councilman Redman are you going to do something tonight and attach an amendment to 2011-554. Make the motion. Allow for your fellow council members to move the motion forward with a second. At least try.
Tomorrow at Waterways I'll be cheering for activist Tom Ingram that even one of his suggestions will make the FIND list. Palms Fish Camp??? Anyone.
Be concerned. I'm scared to death.
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IMHO the riverwalk should be extended to Metro park and the pier should be a part of the riverwalk, BUT the rest of the shipyards property really really needs to end up on the tax rolls. The downtown tax increment district needs more revenue coming in and private businesses operating on that property will help drive economic growth in the CBD.
I agree 100%.
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I disagree 100%, I'm not saying leave it as just a open blank space I'm saying keep it 100% accessible to the public, with some public (park and pier space) and some private(shops, amusements etc) but the entire property should be open to the people of Jacksonville, and not cut off by private condo gates, or hotel guest only areas. That is a unique to Jacksonville property that should be for our use and enjoyment.
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In your opinion, if you had a completed Riverwalk on the property and the a pier park, what else would you keep open? You and I agree 100% on more public access to the river so I am interested in your views. I just want to understand how 100% public access to a Riverwalk extension, a completed pier park, and a tie in to the Hogans Creek Greenway wouldn't be sufficient in your opinion?
Btw, I didn't want to deal with the conditions on the river downtown Sunday... so sorry for not catching up.
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Was at the beach yesterday. Took some pics. There is a 10 am ceremony at Tideview which is an awesome pier with a (Are you ready for this) a brand new floating kayak launch with 4 separate slips in Atlantic Beach. Imagine this on the front of the Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier next to the River Walk. HUGE NEWS.
Has anyone contacted any council person about attaching an amendment to 2011 -554 to keep the pier separate from the other 44 acres that was Shipyards Landmar? The Public Trust has been totally crushed in this community.
VISIT JACKSONVILLE- WE HAVE NO ETHICS
VISIT JACKSONVILLE- WE WILL SOON SHUT DOWN ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY TO OUR ST. JOHNS RIVER OUR AMERICAN HERITAGE RIVER A FEDERAL INITIATIVE.
Be concerned.
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Enough of the land to become a destination. I want a place with ships tied to the piers, playgrounds that noone has ever seen before, sculpture gardens... just plain gardens, fountains for splashing and viewing. I also would like some sort of amusement element included. Especially a ferris wheel as close to the river as possible for a one of a kind view. In short I think if we give some effort this can be our Central, Balboa etc park.
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In your opinion, if you had a completed Riverwalk on the property and the a pier park, what else would you keep open? You and I agree 100% on more public access to the river so I am interested in your views. I just want to understand how 100% public access to a Riverwalk extension, a completed pier park, and a tie in to the Hogans Creek Greenway wouldn't be sufficient in your opinion
[/
So Field,what in fact do you imagine as Open Space use particulars and what would have you assume such vision will come to pass.And this in addition to the other images lodged above.
Field you can look forward to expanding your horizons and guarding against being derailed.
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The Nov.2, 2011 Jacksonville Waterways FIND subcommittee meeting on canoe and kayak launches was sparsley attended. Started at 10 and I'll just go right from the list of current submitted projects for the upcoming Nov. 9, Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting at 9:30 in council chambers.
The Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier is not on the list. WHERE IS The ADMINISTRATION? SHIPYARDS III
1. Zoo Dock construction
2.Mayport Docks
3.Ft. George Inlet
4.Harborview Dredging
5.Sisters ICW dock Dredging
6.Reed Island
7.Charles Reese BR-Dock
8.Zoo Pkwy. Property
9.Atlantic Marine canoe launch
10.Exchange Island Dock
11. Continuation of Blue Cypress boardwalk
12.lighting at BR
you don't consider it a small victory that the City is considering additional access points to the river?
I thought this article from yesterday's T-U sounded promising
http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2011-11-03/story/activists-get-government-interested-adding-more-st-johns-river-access
Huge meeting in 2 1/2 hours at Waterways. Anyone going? The pier should be on the list. Will any other suggestions by citizens be put on the list? Remember its a list. Ask Redman about Arlington River Dredge that was on the list in 2009 and now it has been withdrawn.
Be concerned.
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Photos courtesy of Noone:
(http://i41.tinypic.com/fkxt14.jpg)
(http://i41.tinypic.com/35d0wic.jpg)
(http://i44.tinypic.com/jgnrr6.jpg)
(http://i39.tinypic.com/f3f2g3.jpg)
(http://i41.tinypic.com/2zpme6h.jpg)
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Enough of the land to become a destination. I want a place with ships tied to the piers, playgrounds that noone has ever seen before, sculpture gardens... just plain gardens, fountains for splashing and viewing. I also would like some sort of amusement element included. Especially a ferris wheel as close to the river as possible for a one of a kind view. In short I think if we give some effort this can be our Central, Balboa etc park.
I don't think it will ever be a Central Park type space (surrounding urban context issues), however what you describe works best as a mixed use site with adjacent land uses opening right up to or in it.
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The pier can make money too. there can be a small charge of $1 or something like that to allow people to fish off of it. Near the pier can be a small bait shop where you can also pick up a fishing lisence. A concession stand can serve the entire area, (whatever it's to become) such as hotdogs, hamdurgers, fries, softdrinks and other related "fun foods". I do like the idea of a ferriswheel too and maybe a merry go round.
And this is unrelated to the shipyards, but here's some food for thought, people won't fish in a poluted river. I've heard that it's getting better, but the JEA site on the southbank would be a great place for a marine bio lab and research center.
Bring in the best brightest minds to help us through scientific research and study to determine problems and come up with solutions to clean up the river.
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The pier can make money too. there can be a small charge of $1 or something like that to allow people to fish off of it. Near the pier can be a small bait shop where you can also pick up a fishing lisence. A concession stand can serve the entire area, (whatever it's to become) such as hotdogs, hamdurgers, fries, softdrinks and other related "fun foods". I do like the idea of a ferriswheel too and maybe a merry go round.
There are only three fishing piers in this state that bring in a significant amount of revenue, but the good news is that maintenance costs are not very high. If you look at the old Fuller Warren study, most of the annualized costs were related to construction of parking,not so much maintenance. You won't need to worry about that with this piece of property unless you make the entire site a park, which I just cannot imagine is feasible given the costs the city has in this land and the prime real estate it offers.
And this is unrelated to the shipyards, but here's some food for thought, people won't fish in a poluted river. I've heard that it's getting better, but the JEA site on the southbank would be a great place for a marine bio lab and research center.
Bring in the best brightest minds to help us through scientific research and study to determine problems and come up with solutions to clean up the river.
Luckily, Jacksonville has a true gem in the Marine Reaserch Science Institute at JU. Dr White and the MRSI has been the best thing to happen to the St Johns since water was discovered.
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(http://i41.tinypic.com/35d0wic.jpg)
This type of (inexpensive and earth friendly as it uses recycled tires) launch can be EASILY affixed to the pier.
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And this is unrelated to the shipyards, but here's some food for thought, people won't fish in a polluted river.
A few miles away in Ortega on the same river....
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/906361167_PdWH2-M.jpg)
Same goes for the old Trout River Bridge...
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/853279518_i49sP-M.jpg)
Btw, I've seen people fish in Hogans Creek on multiple occasions. Allow people to fish on the Shipyard's piers and you'll bring in a crowd. It's really one of the most natural and affordable things you can do in public waterfront setting.
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Photos courtesy of Noone:
(http://i41.tinypic.com/fkxt14.jpg)
(http://i41.tinypic.com/35d0wic.jpg)
(http://i44.tinypic.com/jgnrr6.jpg)
(http://i39.tinypic.com/f3f2g3.jpg)
(http://i41.tinypic.com/2zpme6h.jpg)
Doug, Thank you for posting the pics.
The November 9, 2011 Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting was off the charts as it relates to groups and interest in canoe and kayak launch locations in Duval county. Tom Ingram was on the agenda and did a great job in showing everyone that participated even by being there that Public Access to our Waterways can be enhanced.
I'll report back more about the meeting. The highlight for me was the dual appearance by outgoing Find Commissioner Mike Messiano and new incoming Commissioner Aaron Bowman.
During Public Comment I shared my 3 year experience with the Commissioners of FIND and the attempt for a pocket pier (Floating dock) at a waterfront Public Access street end. The Commissioners of FIND said that I needed a sponsor. (A city council member) 3 years later and still don't have a sponsor.
Also a concern that the pictures that are only on Metrojacksonville did not get shown at the Waterways meeting. The plea that I was again making about the pier was not being shown to all the people in the audience. Cause for weak presentation on my part.
Anyone going to the ceremony Sat. 11/12 at 10 am for Tide View Preserve in Atlantic Beach?
Jacksonville Tradeport Pier can utilize the floating launch not at the end of the pier but next to the Riverwalk. Lake you are right that an organic cluster of activity can be created immediatlely. The Pier is not on the FIND list. It should be. CG7 lets access the pier now. Stockton and the pics of North Main shows the excitement for active and passive access. Imagine the Pier outside the control of the yet to be created Downtown Authority. Palms Fish Camp??? Anyone.
Huge meetings next week.
FIND
St. Johns River Alliance
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Who is the coucil person for the shipyards? If I heard and read correctly is not Redman any longer.
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More from Noone...
(http://i42.tinypic.com/314vub6.jpg)
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How much would it cost to purchase and install a launch like that?
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^Looking into it and will let everyone know.CG7the Independent Authority quagmire that is wanting a complete and total takeover of our Downtown the sitting and still acting council person is Don Redman. The Public Trust just totally crushed in this community.
In attendance at the Oct.12 2011 Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting: Don Redman -Chair, John Crescimbeni-Vice chair, Bill Bishop, Commissioners Gary Anderson, Edward Fleming, Stephen Swann, Penny Thompson, tate Representative Lake Ray; Commisioners Lane Burnett, Caryn Carreiro,Raymond Pringle, and Scott Shine were excused; Asst. General Counsel Kristina Nelson; Dr. Quinton White, Dr Gerry Pinto JU, Capt. Jim Suber Dockmaster/ Waterways Coordinator COJ, Dana Morton, Vince Seibold, Gary Weise, Environmental & Compliance Dept. Tera Meeks, New Chief of Waterfront Management Programming, Jody McDaniel, Planning Dept. & FIND coordinator, David Kaufman, Jaxport, Geoffrey Sample, SJRWMD, Chris Warren, Chamber of Commerce, Capt. Mike Getchell, Jacksonville Marine Transportation Exchange, Joe Wilhelm, Financial News and Daily record, Amanda Ellison, US Army Corps of Engineers, Danielle Fondren, John Cook, DHF Consulting, Drew Dixon FTU, Ralph Hodges, Michael Ricker, John Nooney, Jessica Stephens; Legislative Asst; John J. Jackson, Council Research Division.
The 11/ 9 /11 Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting was a game changer for the people of Jacksonville. A state wide wake up call. On the agenda was a presentation by Tom Ingram for potential kayak launches and modifications to existing locations.
There were plenty of questions from the commissioners and also representation from the paddling community out in the audience that turned it into a love fest. The Recreational Fishing Alliance was there and so was Black Creek Outfitters.
For me the dual representation of the outgoing commissioner of FIND Mike Messiano and incoming commissioner Aaron Bowman was just huge. I shared my concerns a few months ago at a gathering of the FIND commissioners in Nassau county about the Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier and had an opportunity to meet and talk with Aaron Bowman. Going forward and being at Wend. meeting you can now truly appreciate the total and absolute frustration that the people of Jacksonville have been subjected to.
After the meeting and standing outside of council chambers I meet Scott Shine, Ray Pringle, and Don Redman, They were not discussing Waterway business. I am just talking to Don and I mention what an unbelievable meeting. Remember this was now after the redistricting vote and my presentation did not get up on the monitors for everyone to see the pictures that are only being seen on metrojax. So I ask him again about the pier and also about Holmesdale Ave. and Palmer Terrace Park and he says to me that you have to contact Suzanne Jenkins or Ginny Myrick and get there permission. Are you SERIOUS? So are you now blaming restrictions of economic opportunity and Public Access to our river on these two? I know Suzanne and that is not the case. She is a hero in my book with the OFWB issue. Have no idea about Myrick. Have never met the lady.
So now lets contrast this to yesterday and the ribbon cutting ceremony at Atlantic Beach and the 800' pier with a kayak launch at Tide View Preserve. I didn't know this but this was also a FIND project. Mike Messiano was there and it was good to see him again. The Mayor of Atlantic Beach and two commissioners. Maria Marks the new commissioner from Atlantic Beach was there. Also Bonnie Barnes with the NFLT was there.
Where is the Riverkeeper on the pier? Rising Tides? The Administration?
Be concerned.
Keep score.
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How much would it cost to purchase and install a launch like that?
Less than 10k if it were attached to an already constructed dock(which the pier and any Southbank Riverwalk reconstruction project offers plenty of opportunity to do so).
The pictures Noone/Doug posted are of the boardwalk extension/dock construction/kayak launch at Tideview. The total cost of that project was about 90k, and was a 50/50 split b/w the City of AB and FIND.
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Field, Those numbers are not close to what was discussed at the ribbon cutting ceremony. No disrespect Mike but I hope someone else makes an inquiry. Don't get me wrong good stuff but just like RAM, Palms Fish Camp, and what this thread is about the Pier. As we move forward Who and Where will people not only be able to access but from an economic standpoint be able to use our RIVER.
These expanded zones and districts that are being created should be a huge red flag. Shipyards/Landmar and the promised 680' Downtown Public Pier needs to be outside the control of the yet to be created and voted on Independent Downtown Authority.
What is the position of Rising Tides on the Pier? The Riverkeeper? The Administration? Ask the question. I couldn't tell you.
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That could very well be. The 47k/47k split was the original proposal for Tideview. I didn't keep up with any changes along the way.
The kayak floating dock number is ironclad though. I've priced them out.
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I'm too old for Rising Tides. I'm a sinking tide or ship. But what is the position of the Administration, Riverkeeper, on the Pier?
Awesome number on the kayak floating dock.
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The perfect place for a floating dock in San Marco would be Riverfront Park (known affectionately, as San Marco Beach). We would need to construct a wood ramp to get down to it from the bulkhead.
(http://i43.tinypic.com/inh7pz.jpg)
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^Looking into it and will let everyone know.CG7the Independent Authority quagmire that is wanting a complete and total takeover of our Downtown the sitting and still acting council person is Don Redman. The Public Trust just totally crushed in this community.
In attendance at the Oct.12 2011 Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting: Don Redman -Chair, John Crescimbeni-Vice chair, Bill Bishop, Commissioners Gary Anderson, Edward Fleming, Stephen Swann, Penny Thompson, tate Representative Lake Ray; Commisioners Lane Burnett, Caryn Carreiro,Raymond Pringle, and Scott Shine were excused; Asst. General Counsel Kristina Nelson; Dr. Quinton White, Dr Gerry Pinto JU, Capt. Jim Suber Dockmaster/ Waterways Coordinator COJ, Dana Morton, Vince Seibold, Gary Weise, Environmental & Compliance Dept. Tera Meeks, New Chief of Waterfront Management Programming, Jody McDaniel, Planning Dept. & FIND coordinator, David Kaufman, Jaxport, Geoffrey Sample, SJRWMD, Chris Warren, Chamber of Commerce, Capt. Mike Getchell, Jacksonville Marine Transportation Exchange, Joe Wilhelm, Financial News and Daily record, Amanda Ellison, US Army Corps of Engineers, Danielle Fondren, John Cook, DHF Consulting, Drew Dixon FTU, Ralph Hodges, Michael Ricker, John Nooney, Jessica Stephens; Legislative Asst; John J. Jackson, Council Research Division.
The 11/ 9 /11 Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting was a game changer for the people of Jacksonville. A state wide wake up call. On the agenda was a presentation by Tom Ingram for potential kayak launches and modifications to existing locations.
There were plenty of questions from the commissioners and also representation from the paddling community out in the audience that turned it into a love fest. The Recreational Fishing Alliance was there and so was Black Creek Outfitters.
For me the dual representation of the outgoing commissioner of FIND Mike Messiano and incoming commissioner Aaron Bowman was just huge. I shared my concerns a few months ago at a gathering of the FIND commissioners in Nassau county about the Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier and had an opportunity to meet and talk with Aaron Bowman. Going forward and being at Wend. meeting you can now truly appreciate the total and absolute frustration that the people of Jacksonville have been subjected to.
After the meeting and standing outside of council chambers I meet Scott Shine, Ray Pringle, and Don Redman, They were not discussing Waterway business. I am just talking to Don and I mention what an unbelievable meeting. Remember this was now after the redistricting vote and my presentation did not get up on the monitors for everyone to see the pictures that are only being seen on metrojax. So I ask him again about the pier and also about Holmesdale Ave. and Palmer Terrace Park and he says to me that you have to contact Suzanne Jenkins or Ginny Myrick and get there permission. Are you SERIOUS? So are you now blaming restrictions of economic opportunity and Public Access to our river on these two? I know Suzanne and that is not the case. She is a hero in my book with the OFWB issue. Have no idea about Myrick. Have never met the lady.
So now lets contrast this to yesterday and the ribbon cutting ceremony at Atlantic Beach and the 800' pier with a kayak launch at Tide View Preserve. I didn't know this but this was also a FIND project. Mike Messiano was there and it was good to see him again. The Mayor of Atlantic Beach and two commissioners. Maria Marks the new commissioner from Atlantic Beach was there. Also Bonnie Barnes with the NFLT was there.
Where is the Riverkeeper on the pier? Rising Tides? The Administration?
Be concerned.
Keep score.
Just checked the website and the St. Johns River Alliance Board meeting is now tomorrow from 1-3 at Camp La No-CHE in Paisley, Florida. Anyone going? According to councilman Redman we just gave them $20,000 for dues. Who will be the Duval county representative at this meeting? I have asked councilman Redman and haven't heard back.
I wanted to attend and ask the Board for a resolution of support that would provide Public Access and economic opportunity if the Shipyards/Landmar 680' Promised Downtown Public Pier was outside the control of a yet created and voted on Independent Downtown Authority. The last attempt was back in 2005. This is when councilwoman Suzanne Jenkins ( The OFWB was not in Jenkins district) Super pats on the back. Jenkins introduced 2005-207 the legislation for the OFWB and can you imagine the shock when I addressed the 12 county Board and our then representative Brad Thoburn and then acting chair Sue Carlson (Brevard county) and Mindy Mathews River Navigator asked if Brad would like the Alliance to support a resolution. Brad declined.
The shock from the other 11 counties when they say "John, What an opportunity for Jacksonville. But how can the other 11 counties support a resolution when your own county doesn't want it." And with the Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier the entire city can say collectively " Here we go again." The Public Trust just totally crushed.
The same shock occurred last Dec. in Palatka when I told the Alliance about 2010-856 the 1 mile transient vendor ban. We are crushing economic opportunity to the Waterway in Jacksonville.
The domino pieces of legislation that are pending before our city council will have the impact of shutting down Public Access and Economic opportunity to our St. Johns River our American Heritage River a FEDERAL Initiative. Its happening.
What is the position of the St. Johns Riverkeeper? I couldn't tell you. I wish I could.
Be concerned.
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FIND meeting in an hour. Open to the Public. One Ocean Hotel. One Ocean Blvd. Atlantic Beach.
Why isn't the Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier on the upcoming FIND list for Duval County?
Mayor Brown- The Pier can be a DOWNTOWN DESTINATION.
Who in the administration will Make It Happen?
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3 days ago I attended the Board meeting of FIND (Florida Inland Navigation District).
FIND is GOOD. Jacksonville is LOST.
Besides myself the only other speaker from Jacksonville to address the Commissioners of FIND was current Jacksonville Waterways Commission member and current Chair of a subcommittee on upcoming FIND projects from Duval county was Gary Anderson.
I shared with the Commission that I felt that the Public Trust as it relates to Public Access to our St. Johns River our American Heritage River a Federal Initiative has been totally crushed.
I mentioned and showed them that the PROMISED 680' DOWNTOWN PUBLIC PIER is not on the current FIND project list.
Let me repeat that. I held up and showed the Commissioners appointed by the governor and representing the east coast of the state of Florida that SHIPYARDS III and the PROMISED 680' DOWNTOWN PUBLIC PIER (IS NOT), on the current FIND project list. What a Joke.
I also shared with the commission members that some I'm getting to know quite well that this is my 3 year anniversary addressing the district with the issue of a pocket pier. If we can have pocket parks, we can have pocket piers.
I can't wait for the next Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting in December and the comments of Gary Anderson and his recommendations on how our community moves forward.
Be concerned.
I'm scared to death.
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The Nov.2, 2011 Jacksonville Waterways FIND subcommittee meeting on canoe and kayak launches was sparsley attended. Started at 10 and I'll just go right from the list of current submitted projects for the upcoming Nov. 9, Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting at 9:30 in council chambers.
The Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier is not on the list. WHERE IS The ADMINISTRATION? SHIPYARDS III
1. Zoo Dock construction
2.Mayport Docks
3.Ft. George Inlet
4.Harborview Dredging
5.Sisters ICW dock Dredging
6.Reed Island
7.Charles Reese BR-Dock
8.Zoo Pkwy. Property
9.Atlantic Marine canoe launch
10.Exchange Island Dock
11. Continuation of Blue Cypress boardwalk
12.lighting at BR
you don't consider it a small victory that the City is considering additional access points to the river?
I thought this article from yesterday's T-U sounded promising
http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2011-11-03/story/activists-get-government-interested-adding-more-st-johns-river-access
Doug, I wanted to respond back on this thread because the Historic Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier can and should be on the upcoming FIND list and the people of Jacksonville need to be scared to death if its not even on the list. The state of Florida is becoming aware of the issue.
Did anyone attend the recent Board meeting of the St. Johns River Alliance? Do we even know who the Duval county representative is that is representing Jacksonville? Councilman Redman, where are you?
Anyone plan on attending the Governing Board meeting of the St. Johns River Water Management District in Palatka Dec.13?
Has anyone done a site inspection of the kayak launch at Chelsea St. and Stonewall down from the Haskell building in Riverside? Because if its that easy lets get the chain saws out and head to River Road Park and knock that one out this weekend.
The TU article does sound promising. And what activist Tom Ingram has done in two meetings is very positive. Will something make the FIND list?
There are numerous domino pieces of legislation that are happening and the question of access to the river from not only a public and passive perspective but a public/private economic perspective need to be equally addressed. Are they? I say no.
Dec. 13, Jacksonville city council meeting. Will an amendment be attached to the reorganization legislation that would keep the Historic Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier (Shipyards III) outside the control of an Independent Authority? Mayor Brown-Make It Happen. Make it a Downtown Destination!
Next Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting Dec. 14, 9:30 council chambers. The commissioners of FIND are all curious will the Historic Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier (Shipyards III) make the list.
Be concerned.
Keep score.
The state of Florida is watching.
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Spoke with Scott Wilson and he informed me that the Jacksonville Waterways Commission FIND subcommittee meeting on identifying canoe and kayak launches has NOT scheduled another meeting. I hope they do. Is the list final?
I want to add Chelsea St. to the list. Its McCoys Creek.
According to Scott and I told him that I was posting this on MJ so feel free to jump in here Scott and clarify but unless you submitted your request at the FIND subcommittee meeting your suggestion won't make it on the list.
In my opinion this gives councilman Redman another exscuse because this will forbid any councilmember to add any of their requests. Sound familiar?
This is what happened with 2010-856 and the transient vendor ban. I was assigned to a special subcommittee to look at exceptions. I was seeking an exception to the Waterways of the St. Johns River our American Heritage River a Federal Initiative. Especially as it related to a Working Waterfront. The legislation was withdrawn.
Does anybody care?
The Public Trust just crushed.
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Hey MJ members. Just got an email from Jacksonville Waterways Commission member Scott Shine and he informed me that the Historic Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier didn't make the FIND list is because he was told that it would be $20,000,000.
I still blame Redman if he fails to make a motion in 7 days when this issue will be before the Jacksonville Waterways Commission that can attach the pier to the FIND subcommittee list before being advanced to the full Jacksonville city council.
Visit Jacksonville?
or
Don't Visit Jacksonville
Does anybody care?
The Public Trust just crushed
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$20million?!?!
That is so false it's not even laughable.
John, can you please forward me that email?
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That is five times the $$$ applied to Downtown West Palm Beach ............
Who quoted 20,000,000 to Mr.Shine??
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$20million?!?!
That is so false it's not even laughable.
John, can you please forward me that email?
Everyone needs to be concerned. SHIPYARDS III
Here is the first couple of sentences from Jacksonville Waterways Commission member Scott Shine who is part of a special FIND subcommittee looking at canoe and kayak launches in Duval county. Lane Burnett, and the Chair of the FIND subcommittee is Gary Anderson
"Had conversations with several people close to the pier issue and got educated on this issue as I promised. From what I have gathered the issue centers on building the Riverwalk completion to close the existing gap between the shoreline and the pier. Then the pier itself would need to be repaired and facilities put in place to make it safe for users. The numbers I am hearing are this project would take OVER $20 million to complete. Hence the reason we are not moving forward."
NM I've emailed him back and have also asked who is giving you this information. Be concerned MJ'ers.
I'm scared to death.
In my book the biggest blame if this doesn't get on the FIND list will be Don Redman. Although I must say I'm disappointed with Shine on this too.
Shine has since emailed me back and will do a site inspection in January. Too late.
In 6 days the reorginization plan.
In 7 days Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting and the FIND list.
Its just a list.
Then it goes to the city council.
I've got so much more on this.
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Great informative efforts Noone.
So the way I read it, at least an envisioned FIND project itself would not be $20,000,000
And perhaps the Pier must see extensive repairs in order to accommodate certain public use?
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$20million?!?!
That is so false it's not even laughable.
MJ'ers has anyone tried to contact anybody about this issue? In 5 days this final FIND list goes to the Jacksonville Waterways Commission for approval then on to the full city council and then to the Commissioners of FIND representing the east coast of the state of Florida.
3 years ago I attended a meeting in Duval county with the Commissioners of FIND with this one question. If private money was raised for a pocket pier floating dock at a waterfront Public Access street end would the commissioners of FIND match the other half of the construction cost? The answer was yes. You need a sponsor. (a city councilman)
So 3 years later is a Public process that is still in the process and that is the special FIND subcommittee that is looking at canoe and kayak launches for Duval county. So can you imagine the monumental embarrassment to go back to the commissioners of FIND and share with them what is not on the list.
So Field, and anyone else if your game and I'm serious. The commissioners of FIND are awesome. Other Commissioners of FIND have informed me that they are working on Pocket Piers in their districts. So can you imagine this Public/Private Partnership where we raise and I don't care if its just a $100 we then present it to another county so that their residents will have access to the intracoastal Waterway or the St. Johns River our American Heritage River a Federal Initiative.
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$20million?!?!
That is so false it's not even laughable.
MJ'ers has anyone tried to contact anybody about this issue? In 5 days this final FIND list goes to the Jacksonville Waterways Commission for approval then on to the full city council and then to the Commissioners of FIND representing the east coast of the state of Florida.
3 years ago I attended a meeting in Duval county with the Commissioners of FIND with this one question. If private money was raised for a pocket pier floating dock at a waterfront Public Access street end would the commissioners of FIND match the other half of the construction cost? The answer was yes. You need a sponsor. (a city councilman)
So 3 years later is a Public process that is still in the process and that is the special FIND subcommittee that is looking at canoe and kayak launches for Duval county. So can you imagine the monumental embarrassment to go back to the commissioners of FIND and share with them what is not on the list.
So Field, and anyone else if your game and I'm serious. The commissioners of FIND are awesome. Other Commissioners of FIND have informed me that they are working on Pocket Piers in their districts. So can you imagine this Public/Private Partnership where we raise and I don't care if its just a $100 we then present it to another county so that their residents will have access to the intracoastal Waterway or the St. Johns River our American Heritage River a Federal Initiative.
Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting in 2 1/2 hours. City council members. Wake Up. You may still be able to add a project to the upcoming FIND list.
Be concerned.
Keep score.
Public/Private Partnership.
Who wants to be a 501-c?
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Today making a scene on a Downtown Urban Waterway Destination on the last day of 2011 was CG7 and I. Another shoutout and we are both more convinced then ever that it KHAN Happen. Downtown can be a Destination and it requires legislation.
We put in at the new kayak launch logo at RCB at 8am. Beautiful conditions outgoing tide. My kayak is loaded like my van. I'm ready for everything. New hip waders for Hogans or McCoys. Have the clippers and dragging rake. Brought some fishing poles and gear. And of coarse our Visit Jacksonville sign.
Craig wants to catch the activities that are happening Downtown and we made our way toward the Landing. There were already a number of skullers on the water and they were dotting numerous spots on the river. With the outgoing tide and heading toward Hogans Creek and the Maxwell House plant you don't even have to paddle. We crossed the river and given the low tide conditions and they were low. A visible mud flat at RCB just reinforced how low it was. So with great conditions we decided to take it under the Hyatt parking lot and we just had a blast. We entered at the first entrance and took it all the way to the back. coming back out we decided to follow the proverbial lights at the end of the tunnel that takes you under the street all the way to the docks at Berkman. We explored spots east and west and north and south.
After emerging from the caverns of the pilings we were then immediately staring at the Historic Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier. Not one boat was at Berkman. We glided through the pilings of the piers and continued on to Hogans. Still low tides and the mud flats are exposed. We both commented on how clean the creek looked. Still some debris but not the highly concentrated amounts. Saw the shopping cart depth meter chart in a distance and we just didn't paddle that far up.
Instead we decided to take it back toward Downtown. Still an outgoing tide. Now for the first time we are doing some serious paddling. We take it to the floating dock at Berkman. CG7 gets out of his kayak just before some big waves came rolling in from the boat that was booking it. You immediately recognize that a moment earlier and that would not have been safe. Craig had gotten out to see if this had been posted for a kayak location. It hadn't.
So with an outgoing tide and still a ways to go Craig suggests that we take it back under the street again. What a great idea. So going with the tide we go back under the street by the docks at Berkman. I brought the fishing poles and wanted to give it a shot. So next to some pilings I throw out a jig with a dead shrimp and I catch a nice blue crab. Time to try another spot.
So Craig and I take it farther in and this time we try an area that has penetrating light from above. This time on a shrimp I catch an eel. Time to move again. This time we have made it back to another vast area of penetrating light with voices above us continually changing as people are walking by. This time I catch a catfish.
The water level underneath has risen quite considerably. CG7 and I discuss a bunch of what ifs. He has a time crunch and takes it back. I wanted to try another spot or two. After about a 1/2 hour no luck and the river traffic picking up quite a bit it was time to take it back as well.
Jacksonville city council meeting in 10 days. Waterways in 11 days. 2011-578 was on the agenda at the last Waterways meeting and Drew Dixon with the TU wrote about it. The Historic Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier needs to be on the FIND list. Stonewall and Chelsea St. McCoys Creek is a true Public/Private Partnership with councilman Warren Jones and the Commissioners of FIND. Mayor Brown, Please lead the way on this one as well.
CG7 is excited about Downtown as am I. Legislation needs to happen immediately so we will all be able to say "VISIT JACKSONVILLE."
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Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting in two days. The Public Trust in this community continues to be absolutely obliterated and destroyed. After 3 years (3 YEARS!), still don't have one sponsor (city council member) to take to the commissioners of FIND (Florida Inland Navigation District)
Legislative session starts tomorrow. Who's ready to paddle condom creek?
Shipyards III. We are a joke!
VISIT JACKSONVILLE
or
DON'T VISIT JACKSONVILLE
We'll all know how to advertise our city very shortly.
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Ther must ba a way around to get this on the FIND list. Obviously Redman does not care about this issue, citizens in his district, nor the future of Jacksonville. Really sad.
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Ther must ba a way around to get this on the FIND list. Obviously Redman does not care about this issue, citizens in his district, nor the future of Jacksonville. Really sad.
There are numerous ways to get this on the FIND list. Unfortunately my District representative is leading the conspiracy to deny not only the people of Jacksonville but the people of the state of Florida to Public Access and economic opportunity to our St. Johns River our American Heritage River borders on criminal.
City council meeting tonight. Waterways tomorrow. And then it will be time to elevate this issue throughout the state of Florida. The Public Trust just crushed in this community.
On a positive note I did attend for the first time the Urban Core CPAC meeting last night in the Ed Ball building and was just delighted in the turnout and the direction of concerns that others have in moving our city forward. Christina Parrish is the chair and I did have an opportunity to speak. I didn't mention the pier. But there was talk and discussion of Mayor Brown's recent kayak initiative. Good stuff especially for Downtown and you can't stress the importance of these safe zones that need to immediately come online to make kayaking safe and fun for Downtown.
It was mentioned that councilman Redman still has legislative oversight on some areas of the core. As well as Jones and Gaffney.
Other topics were discussed and Preservation was on there. I have a gut feeling that this CPAC Khan Make It Happen.
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$20million?!?!
That is so false it's not even laughable.
John, can you please forward me that email?
BTW, while researching something else... discovered Trout River Bridge Fishing Pier was only about 8% of this 20 million dollar pricetag. The Fuller Warren study quoted a price that was less than half of this 20 million dollar pricetag(and most of that was for a parking lot, right of way access and stormwater runoff-all not problems in the Shipyards case). As was the Nassau Sound Fishing Pier.... and the Sunshine Skyway Fishing Piers cost about as much as this 'supposed' $20 million pricetag, and that includes nearly 3 miles of fishing space.
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^Great information. Waterways meeting in 3 1/2 hours. Anyone going?
Eveyone see the Times Union 1/10/12 front page story "Fishing Limits set for all species"?
SHIPYARDS III- "Downtown Jacksonville Public Pier limits access for all."
Has anyone done a site inspection of Stonewall St. and Chelsea St. Brooklyn.?
Palms Fish Camp -Who's getting fired? Who's getting the promotion?
Daniel O'Byrne with Visit Jacksonville is leaving? The new guy. Anyone no why?
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Great,and often effective to have passion for a project.....best coupled with discernment,insight.....and don't wear out welcome.
The final decided use of the Shipyards parcel probably a key driver,FIND involvement at this time premature,if in fact not tolerated.
What do FIND representatives have to say about the Pier? That is all we need to hear next.
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(http://i41.tinypic.com/35d0wic.jpg)
This type of (inexpensive and earth friendly as it uses recycled tires) launch can be EASILY affixed to the pier.
More from Noone...
(http://i42.tinypic.com/314vub6.jpg)
What another Regional, Statewide, backyard meeting of the Jacksonville Waterways Commission.
Going from the minutes from the Dec.14 2011 meeting in attendance Council members Don Redman (Chair) John Crescimbeni (Vice Chair) Bill Bishop; Commissioners Gary Anderson,Lane Burnett, Edward Fleming, Ralph Hodges, Raymond Pringle, Scott Shine, Penny Thompson, Commissioner Stephen Swann was excused. Kristina Nelson OGC Dr. White and Dr. Pinto with Jacksonville University, Jim Suber, Waterways Coordinator COJ, Jessica Stephens, Jody McDaniel,Capt. Mike Getchall, Geoffrey Sample, Derek Busby, Dave Roman, Tom Ingram, Scott Wilson, Joseph Wilhelm, Andrea Conover, Roger Bump, Craig Van Brocklin, John Nooney, Cyd Hoskinson, Karl Soderholm, Mathew Rini, Chris DeVries, Ryan Barber, Katy Pilato, Sadie Frederick, Matt Foster, Keith Keller, Steven Davis, Barton Issac, Patrick Osleby, Robert Benardo, Chelsi P. Henry, Sgt. Leonard Propper, Officer Bob Winslow, John Jackson
At yesterdays Waterways meeting I was proudly wearing Mayor Brown's kayak adventures t-shirt. I applaud Mayor Brown and his efforts to make Downtown a Destination and not a pass through especially as it relates to our River.
It was a light agenda. What peeked my interest was item III
Living Shoreline Project-Jacksonville Zoo Danielle Fondren, CEO DHF Consulting, Inc.
Bob Chabot, Director of Horticulture, Jacksonville Zoo
Its a restoration project to restore spartina grass along an impacted area of the zoo and they were seeking a resolution of support from the city of Jacksonville so as to include it in a grant application that is due in Feb.
It was a good presentation and my immediate thought is sign me up. And at the same time I'm thinking to myself Shoreline restoration. You need to go and look at Stonewall and Chelsea St. on McCoys Creek and Sydney Gefen Park on the Northbank Riverwalk. They have a meeting Friday and are seeking in kind donations that could adversely affect the $350,000 project cost that is being floated at this time. Also a 1/3 of the cost is for a walkway.
I mentioned after the meeting to Dave Roman look at Sydney Gefin Park for restoring some grass there. Why not. After listening to that presentation and the conditions for habitat renewal and Mayor Brown wanting to expand on the Public/Private Partnership (Still trying to understand what that means) but would the new Downtown Authority allow this to happen here? Put up a bike rack at this park and the community can be a Downtown Partner and those that are close by can ride there bikes to this location. Our Downtown is Bulkheaded in so many locations but not here. Just a thought.
I don't think that Trads or Jones Hall carries this type of grass. So just where does one go to get a tray of spartina grass?
Anyway on with other revelations from yesterdays Waterways meeting. Let me share this with everyone from the minutes. In Old Business Commissioner Gary Anderson suggested that attorney Tom Ingram's proposed list potential new sites for kayak launch facilities on City-owned property merited review for Florida Inland Navigation District (FIND) consideration.
Congratulations to Tom.
The real excitement of the meeting came during Public Comments. The chair had recognized outgoing St. Johns Riverkeeper Neil Armingeon and new incoming St. Johns Riverkeeper Lisa Rinamon earlier so they waved their opportunity to speak again. I'm up next. I shared with the commission the Times Union front page story from Tues. paper "Fishing limits set for all species" The United States this year will become the first country to impose catch limits for every species it manages, from Alaska pollock to Caribbean conch. I'm a member of the Recreational Fishing Alliance and there is never enough time to address so many issues. MJers go and look at Stonewall and Chelsea St. and then imagine going up to a podium after listening to a presentation on Shoreline Restoration just not even 30 minutes ago.
Also speaking and members of the Recreational Fishing Alliance were Capt Roger Bump and Capt. Vic Tison. There comments and concerns sparked dialogue among commission members and as a result of there participation the artificial reef program will be on the agenda at the next Jacksonville Waterways meeting. Dana Morton will be participating with that.
Public Comment is the last item on the agenda. After the meeting standing around and talking were Scott Shine, Roger Bump, Gary Anderson, Don Redman, Vic Tison, Mike Getchall, Someone from the Coast Guard, and myself. Anyway Don excuses himself as I and I asked Don if he is going to introduce anything with the Historic Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier. Even the first 25 or 50' for a kayak launch that you see in the pictures and it was a flat out NO. Don if you are going to kayak safely Downtown you need safety zones. Shipyards III.
Outside I had an opportunity to talk with Lisa Rinamon about the pier as well. Remember Peyton didn't want it and she said that she will look at the issue as well. She kayaks. If you are going to kayak safely Downtown you need safety zones.
Its different to be up close and personal if you fall out in a creek as compared to an open river with a stong current.
Anyone else ready to continue to promote, preserve, access, and celebrate a Downtown Destination River Activity on our St. Johns River our American Heritage River a Federal Initiative with a kayak paddle?
Who's next?
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Another update to last weeks Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting. There was not a FIND update report on the agenda and I don't recall seeing Jody McDaniel there. If she was I then apologize. The Public Trust just being totally, totally crushed in this community.
So just what is the final FIND list for this year?
Here is a clue! Its still being formalized! WAKE UP JACKSONVILLE!
Attended a gathering of the commissioners of FIND ( Florida Inland Navigation District) last week in St. Johns county. Saw Lad Daniels, former Jacksonville city councilman and now the chair of the Governing Board of the St. Johns River Water Management District. Had a nice conversation about some past and future legislative pieces of legislation.
The Historic Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier can still be put on the FIND list.
THAT IS A FACT.
VISIT JACKSONVILLE
or
DON'T VISIT JACKSONVILLE
Visit St. Johns County--You are going to love what they are doing with their Pier.
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$20million?!?!
That is so false it's not even laughable.
John, can you please forward me that email?
Still waiting on this email which itemizes this phantom $20million price tag.
Here are some real numbers:
Total allocation of cost for the Southbank Riverwalk Renovations= $17,567,322.
The concepts have been posted here on MJ before. If you can do all those things(including all the concrete and bulkhead work needed to replace all the wood from the Southbank Riverwalk) for $17mm, then a $20million pier must include some kind of space shuttle launch pad.
Total cost of Northbank Riverwalk extension from RAM to Memorial Park= $ 37,208,014.
Total cost of Riverwalk repairs along Coastline Drive(where piers and bulkheads had sunk and/or collapsed= $3,700,000
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Landmar's pier, including the ship like structure, was said to cost $3.5 million:
Jacksonville: LandMar launches Shipyards plan
(http://www.jacksonville.com/images/031005/64326_400.jpg)
(http://www.jacksonville.com/images/031005/64327_400.jpg)
The downtown pier would also feature a waterfall, grassy areas and trees.
Jacksonville's LandMar Group LLC unveiled a rendering of an arch with a 100-foot-high mast that would be at the end of a 680-foot existing pier on the St. Johns River as part of the public portion of LandMar's redevelopment plans for the downtown Shipyards project. The pier would also feature a waterfall, grassy areas and trees. LandMar President and
Chief Executive Officer Ed Burr said Wednesday that the pier would be "a place where the people of Jacksonville could get on the river, not just along the river." The plan calls for a circular public park along the river near the mouth of Hogan's Creek with a theme inspired by a Timuquan Indian village. LandMar is scheduled to present its Shipyards plans at today's Jacksonville Economic Development Commission meeting. The pier project is expected to cost $3.5 million.
Christopher Calnan/The Times-Union
This story can be found on Jacksonville.com at http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/031005/bus_18175976.shtml (http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/031005/bus_18175976.shtml).
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The new race Street Pier Park in Philadelphia cost around $6 million to design and construct
http://www.delawareriverwaterfrontcorp.com/index.php?pageID=59&image=59a
http://www.delawareriverwaterfrontcorp.com/index.php?pageID=65&image=65a
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Assuming the pier is structurally sound.. I'm no engineer nor diver, but I see no signs of structural defficiencies and I am assuming the engineer for Landmar must have issued a similar opinion... based on an examination of Public Works' line items, you can calculate a simple fishing pier that would mimic the amenities along the Northbank Riverwalk for under $1mm. The thing I don't know is what it would cost to extend the bullkhead the 4 feet to connect the pier to the existing shoreline. Just having a general idea of how much that would cost to backfill a section of an existing concrete building... I can't imagine it would be very much money.
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Could it be that the only way to 'answer' this is.......the final determined outcome,by others, of Landmar /Shipyards parcel??????
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Landmar's pier, including the ship like structure, was said to cost $3.5 million:
Jacksonville: LandMar launches Shipyards plan
(http://www.jacksonville.com/images/031005/64326_400.jpg)
(http://www.jacksonville.com/images/031005/64327_400.jpg)
The downtown pier would also feature a waterfall, grassy areas and trees.
Jacksonville's LandMar Group LLC unveiled a rendering
Chief Executive Officer Ed Bnot just along the river." million.
Christopher Calnan/The Times-Union
document??
This story can be found on Jacksonville.com at http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/031005/bus_18175976.shtml (http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/031005/bus_18175976.shtml).
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$20million?!?!
That is so false it's not even laughable.
John, can you please forward me that email?
Still waiting on this email which itemizes this phantom $20million price tag.
Contact Scott Shine and Don Redman. We have both been down that road before. The conspiracy to deny the people of Jacksonville and the state of Florida should probably be elevated to an immediate Federal probe that will reopen Shipyards and will then have a subchapter Shipyards III.
And when you find out who is floating that $20,000,000 please share it with all the MJers too.
The Public Trust is just totally destroyed in this community.
Scott Shine at a meeting with the Recreational Fishing Alliance was asked about the Pier. I have no idea who advised, suggested, mentioned, floated, the $20,000,000 to him.
Don Redman is the lead person with 5 years of the institutional knowledge that received the memo from then JEDC Ron Barton that warned all council members about Landmar. Right now everyone not only in Jacksonville but throughout the state should be looking at this PUBLIC ACCESS issue. Regional Partners?
Be concerned. I'm scared to death.
Who wants to Kayak Hogans Creek or McCoys Creek under the Times Union?
Special shout out to Paul Anderson-New guy to the JPA
Lisa Rinamon
Neil Armingeon
Tara Meeks
Kelly Borree
Any commissioner of FIND
Any commissioner of the JWC
Mayor Brown
Dave Roman
Ron Littlepage
Anyone with the Governing Board of the SJRWMD
Anyone with the Recreational Fishing Alliance
Steve Patterson
Joe Wilhelm
David Chapman
Susan Cooper Eastman
Jacksonville city council members
Anne Schindler
Melissa Ross
The issue can still be put on the November 2012 ballot.
Another, Another, Another, special subcommittee meeting of the Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting in just over 24 hours at 9:30 am on the 4Th floor of city hall.
I'm going.
And my message is.
"I am Downtown!" and "Why you aren't!"
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As to Regional Partners,as it relates to surrounding counties........for decades they have played the assumed superior militant role,and are alert to competition.
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Another, Another, Another special sub committee meeting of the Jacksonville Waterways Commission on 1/25/12 at 9:30 am 4Th floor city hall.
My message.
"I am Downtown" and "Why you aren't"
The Public Trust continues to be completely and totally destroyed.
VISIT JACKSONVILLE
or
DON"T VISIT JACKSONVILLE
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Another, Another, Another, Another off the charts obscure meeting of a special sub committee meeting of The Jacksonville Waterways Commission that is escalating throughout the state for a number of reasons.
Some will be positive and some will be negative.
"I am Downtown" and I was proudly wearing my Mayor Alvin Brown kayak adventures t-shirt.
Has anyone ever received a notice from an elected official the night before notifying you of a canceled meeting and in fact that Public meeting wasn't canceled?
Despite that HUGE ethical violation I forged ahead and am ecstatic, euphoric, and ready to promote and help and assist in any way that I can a resurrected program that was established by ordinance 3 years ago.
I'm a member of the RFA Recreational Fishing Alliance and the artificial reef program is coming back. Given the Federal closures and to reestablish reefs in our river and within 3 miles of the ocean off our beaches is a great benefit to this community.
After this meeting I attended the Board meeting of Downtown Vision. Shared with them some updates of kayaking Downtown. Mentioned Sydney Gefen Park. What an awesome opportunity right now.
I also attended the Ethics Commission meeting at 4 in the St. James bldg. and shared with everyone my absolute shock at behind the door concerns of citizen participation. I'm not the bad guy.
I so much want to say.
VISIT JACKSONVILLE
We are Downtown. We Khan Make It Happen.
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Has anyone ever received a notice from an elected official the night before notifying you of a canceled meeting and in fact that Public meeting wasn't canceled?
this is completely unacceptable....and the Councilman should be called out in a public meeting for this
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Has anyone ever received a notice from an elected official the night before notifying you of a canceled meeting and in fact that Public meeting wasn't canceled?
this is completely unacceptable....and the Councilman should be called out in a public meeting for this
COJ Ethics review......
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Has anyone ever received a notice from an elected official the night before notifying you of a canceled meeting and in fact that Public meeting wasn't canceled?
this is completely unacceptable....and the Councilman should be called out in a public meeting for this
COJ Ethics review......
Put the entire council on trial!
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Has anyone ever received a notice from an elected official the night before notifying you of a canceled meeting and in fact that Public meeting wasn't canceled?
this is completely unacceptable....and the Councilman should be called out in a public meeting for this
COJ Ethics review......
Put the entire council on trial!
Dude, you seem to always have your torch and pitchfork ready for a march on (insert object of current outrage here).
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Has anyone ever received a notice from an elected official the night before notifying you of a canceled meeting and in fact that Public meeting wasn't canceled?
this is completely unacceptable....and the Councilman should be called out in a public meeting for this
COJ Ethics review......
Put the entire council on trial!
Dude, you seem to always have your torch and pitchfork ready for a march on (insert object of current outrage here).
Yeah it's true, even when I lived up north I had problems with the powers that be. Up there, they're too far left. Down here they're too far right. They all suck, and it frustrates me that we allow these idiots to continue to control our lives.
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Redman must have been bone tired and frustrated with the likes of Noone,pushed to the brink,to the point of uncharacteristic actual communication.........relief worth a frantic and reckless ruse......"meeting cancelled"
A theory
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^NM, Just the absolute complete and total opposite. If anything after 5 years this is the first email that I can recall from my elected legislative representative that was initiated by him. I"M NOT THE BAD GUY!
I have never ever been contacted by an elected legislative representative at 9:20 at night notifying me of a Public meeting cancellation just 12 hours out and in fact that meeting wasn't cancelled and I'm one of 96 others that received that notice of a Public meeting. I attended 3 meetings on 1/25/12. Why was I singled out? Others were on the list and I asked them if they received an email from the Chair of Waterways notifying them that this meeting that they are attending was cancelled. They didn't receive an email.
Waterways Subcommittee meeting at 9:30. city hall
Downtown Vision Board meeting at 12.
Ethics Commission meeting at 4 back at city hall. Shared with the ethics commission this concern that has all transpired in less than 24 hours. Carla Miller is going to investigate this or Jon Phillips. Because the administration and the council are wondering if we really need to fund Ethics in Jacksonville. The Public Trust just destroyed in this community.
Remember 2010-856 The transient vendor ban and how at a whim meetings can be cancelled. There are other countless examples.
Field, How about your emails from Redman. Go back to this thread and the vote. What are we telling our Regional Partners? What will we now be telling the commissioners of FIND? Ron Barton warned the council about Shipyards III. Redman has the memo.
This is Tony Nelson month.
Visit Jacksonville-We have no Ethics (Tours are filling up fast)
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^NM, Just the absolute complete and total opposite. If anything after 5 years this is the first email that I can recall from my elected legislative representative that was initiated by him. I"M NOT THE BAD GUY!
Understood. No collaborative discourse.
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Redman must have been bone tired and frustrated with the likes of Noone,pushed to the brink,to the point of uncharacteristic actual communication.........relief worth a frantic and reckless ruse......"meeting cancelled"
A theory
I was the one who was either bone tired or frustrated with my elected legislative representative and I did include Don Redman Chair of Waterways in an email to our Ethics officer and the fact that he did respond to me is a blessing in disguise.
FIND is Good
Jacksonville is Lost
City council meeting tonight
Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting tomorrow.
Governor Scott is aware of the issue. He has notified me that it is local. After March it will lose its local jurisdiction and then return to a state issue in my opinion. Councilman Redman do something. Anything. Set up your table at the pier and then take it home with you. This issue will escalate to a state wide joke and every inquiry can and should be addressed to you.
Who will get the promotion? Who will get fired?
Lets get to Work- Just not in Downtown Jacksonville especially on our St. Johns River our American Heritage River a FEDERAL Initiative.
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Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting in 3 hours. Does anybody care? I know the meeting is in the middle of the day and I'm fortunate to work around my schedule but time is running out. Call or email your councilman. The pier can still be put on this years FIND list. This is Shipyards III. Is everyone excited about the total Govt. takeover of the Downtown Independent Authority and how this will effect economic opportunity to waterway business? RAM, Palms Fish Camp, our St. Johns River our American Heritage River a Federal Initiative. Last night at the Jacksonville City council meeting I proudly donated to 2009-442. It Khan Happen Downtown.
Monopoly-Free Parking
Jacksonville-Free Pier
Visit Jacksonville
or
Don't Visit Jacksonville
I am Downtown. And why you aren't.
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26 days out from the Jacksonville Food Truck Championship. Imagine those trucks on the Pier?
Bay St. Pier Park has anyone walked next to this potential Urban Cluster of Organic activity that Khan happen if Bay St. Pier Park is immediately included in the plan.
There is a legislative window that is closing. Redman do something!!!!!!!!!!!
The issue will escalate throughout the state.
I am Downtown. And why you aren't
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^ Funny that did cross my mind also. I thought it would be great if the City at least allowed certain events on that piece of property. Live music and the Food Truck Championship would have been a great fit I think. It'd be nice if we could put together some kind of regular Sunday Funday event there. Food, drinks and live music...
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Comncense, You have nailed it! The Pier would be an immediate Downtown River Destination.
Spoke to Scott Wilson Dist.4 assistant for Don Redman and told him about the letter of support that will be coming from the St. Johns Riverkeeper after her appearance before the Urban Core CPAC meeting last night.
Scott is also going to be attending the RFA Recreational Fishing Alliance rally that is at Sneakers at 9A and Baymeadows and starts in an hour. Councilman Redman has the legislative power to do something. Will he? Like the success of the Food Trucks Don Redman can be the biggest hero in the state of Florida. The Governor is aware of the issue as well as the commissioners of FIND.
Also another special subcommittee meeting of the the Jacksonville Waterways Commission tomorrow at 9:30 4th floor city hall on the artificial reefs. Open to the Public
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Lets Reclaim the Pier before it is lost.
City council tomorrow.
Waterways Wend.
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Epoch opportunity to reclaim access to our Historic Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier in 3 hours at the Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting. Emergency Legislation NOW. Please.
Jacksonville Waterways Commission members and MJ'ers are in shock and disbelief that the floating dock at RAM is only allowed to be used when RAM is opened. Epoch concern.
Now, with the creation of a new Downtown Authority the potential closure of river access within the Epoch Zone should be a Huge Red Flag and the Governor, Mayor, Jacksonville City council, Commissioners of FIND, Our Regional Partners, the Jacksonville Waterways Commission should immediately introduce legislation that would insure the people of Jacksonville and the state of Florida that we will all have the opportunity to continue to Preserve, Promote, Access, and Celebrate our St. Johns River our American Heritage River a Federal Initiative.
Councilman Redman. Do something. He has the Barton memo. He has the legislative power.
Be concerned.
Visit Jacksonville
or
Don't Visit Jacksonville
I am Downtown and why you aren't.
Hey ! Lets all be Downtown. The Pier can be the free parking on the Monopoly Board. What is wrong with that? Anyone?
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Does anybody care?
city council tomorrow. Will an amendment be attached to 2012-212, 0r 2012-213 that will provide an epoch opportunity to reclaim a free zone on our Downtown Waterway?
W-Wheres
T-The
F-Freedom
I am Downtown and why you aren't.
Who wants to kayak and fish under the brand new no fishing signs Downtown?
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Epoch opportunity to reclaim access to our Historic Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier in 3 hours at the Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting.
Epoch or epic?
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Epoch Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting in 4 1/2 hours to reclaim access to our St. Johns River our American Heritage River a Federal Initiative within our new DIA Downtown Investment Authority. 2012-212, 2012-213
Free Parking
Free Docking
Spoke with Don Shea after the city council workshop on 2012-212 and 2012-213 and any council member can attach an amendment to keep the Historic Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier separate. Everything is on the table right now. This is the opportunity for amendments.
Obviously it won't be Redman. But then again he is the chair of Waterways and in 4 1/2 hours he is still the chair of Waterways and is in a legislative position to Make It Happen. What a lob pitch. Scott, you read this forum all the time. Knock it out of the park.
Its Epoch!
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MJ'ers had a call from councilman Gaffney today and he is ALL IN on the pier! He wants a noticed meeting and would like Redman to be there. Somebody, Anybody try contacting Redman.
Welcome any guidance in how to move the legislative process forward and restoring the Public Trust especially as it relates to our Waterways.
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just email him
redman@coj.net
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just email him
redman@coj.net
Yeah, that's a SURE fire way to speak with him ::)
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just email him
redman@coj.net
Are you kidding?
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just email him
redman@coj.net
tufsu1 you email him and report back to the group.
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just email him
redman@coj.net
Are you kidding?
of course
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Its Epoch!
What does that mean? Am I missing something (because it is something you put in all of your posts)...
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just email him
redman@coj.net
tufsu1 you email him and report back to the group.
Transform the Pier! tufsu1 are you responsible for Making It Happen? Is this the Lost and Found that Downtown has been looking for? Spoke with Scott Wilson assistant to Don Redman and according to Scott there will be a noticed meeting on the Historic Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier. Shipyards/Landmar 2010-604, 2011-560 and now 2012-212 and all that is being sought is an amendment.
Restore the Public Trust.
We are ALL IN.
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So, I want to make sure I understand this properly. This is to open up the St. Johns River to the public, am I correct? Simple details on what this does.
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YES.
It will all be discussed at the noticed Public meeting that Scott Wilson is setting up. Please call and we will all then be able to find out the details. 630-1377. The meeting needs to take place prior to the passage of 2012-212, 213 the city reorg. Pending active legislation.
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why would redman need an assistant?
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Has any MJ'er reached out to Jacksonville city councilman Don Redman? Has any guest or lurker who reads this forum for information that pertains to our city that is not reported anywhere else contacted any council member and ask if they will attach an amendment to 2012-212 to keep even the first 25' or 50' to be separate and outside the total Govt. takeover with this yet to be voted on DIA? Call it RAM II
We will have Shipyards III
Has anyone seen the Ron Barton memo warning the Jacksonville city council about Landmar?
Palms Fish Camp. Anyone? This is a LOST and FIND issue.
2011-364-a $1 a year for 30 years. Sign me up. Hemming Plaza next?
The total collapse of an Urban Core CPAC
Cherry picked pieces of legislation at Waterways.
The Public Park at Berkman Plaza-Plaza at Berkman. Is just one slip at the marina designated for Public use?
Alterations to the Comp plan as it relates to the Waterways?
McCoys Creek and Hogans Creek next as it relates to a perceived Public, Private, Partnership?
I heard back from Scott Wilson not Don and there WILL NOT be a noticed meeting. Don't ask me why I don't here from my elected legislative representative.
Can even one MJ'er post there experience on this?
The absolute total destruction of the Public Trust in this community.
Does anybody care?
So on a positive note who wants to kayak and fish under our brand new no fishing signs never before Waterways in our soon to be voted on new total Govt. takeover Downtown Authority.
I am Downtown and why you aren't.
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Has any MJ'er reached out to Jacksonville city councilman Don Redman? Has any guest or lurker who reads this forum for information that pertains to our city that is not reported anywhere else contacted any council member and ask if they will attach an amendment to 2012-212 to keep even the first 25' or 50' to be separate and outside the total Govt. takeover with this yet to be voted on DIA? Call it RAM II
We will have Shipyards III
Has anyone seen the Ron Barton memo warning the Jacksonville city council about Landmar?
Palms Fish Camp. Anyone? This is a LOST and FIND issue.
2011-364-a $1 a year for 30 years. Sign me up. Hemming Plaza next?
The total collapse of an Urban Core CPAC
Cherry picked pieces of legislation at Waterways.
The Public Park at Berkman Plaza-Plaza at Berkman. Is just one slip at the marina designated for Public use?
Alterations to the Comp plan as it relates to the Waterways?
McCoys Creek and Hogans Creek next as it relates to a perceived Public, Private, Partnership?
I heard back from Scott Wilson not Don and there WILL NOT be a noticed meeting. Don't ask me why I don't here from my elected legislative representative.
Can even one MJ'er post there experience on this?
The absolute total destruction of the Public Trust in this community.
Does anybody care?
So on a positive note who wants to kayak and fish under our brand new no fishing signs never before Waterways in our soon to be voted on new total Govt. takeover Downtown Authority.
I am Downtown and why you aren't.
It would be a lot easier to care if I could tell what the hell you were on about.
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why would redman need an assistant?
all council members (except Crescimbeni) have them....although many are sharing assistants now
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just email him
redman@coj.net
tufsu1 you email him and report back to the group.
Reporting back to the group. Heard back from Scott Wilson not Don Redman and my question to the group is can one councilman have a noticed meeting? I'd say YES.
As for the Urban Core CPAC Chris Parrish and everyone who was at that meeting and heard Lisa Rinaman with the administration tell everyone that she supports the pier and her response was with a YES. Still waiting on that letter of support.
2012-212 and 2012-213 can these pieces of legislation become law in two days?
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remember that Lisa Rinaman is now the Riverkeeper
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Just one MJ'er who was at the Urban Core CPAC and heard the administration support the pier. This is key. Look at the pole. The only thing that is changing is the legislation. Instead of 2010-604 its 2012-212. Littlepage in his column today even says "the council will make changes to the legislation." Will they?
Can one councilman have a noticed meeting?
Be concerned. Especially if you were at that Urban Core CPAC meeting. This is how the administration will shut out economic opportunity to the little guy especially as it relates to our St. Johns River our American Heritage River a Federal Initiative.
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In less than 5 hours an epoch RCD subcommittee meeting on 2012-212, and 2012-213 our city reorg at 1 in Conf. room A city hall.
Has even 1 MJ'er contacted any city council member about an amendment that can be attached to 2012-212 that would even keep the first 25' or 50' of the Shipyards/Landmar pier outside of the total govt. control of this yet to be voted on DIA?
Look at the original pole.
Nothing is changing?
Stick your hand out.
Palms Fish Camp? Anyone. FIND money?
We are so LOST.
Lets reclaim the Public Trust.
I am Downtown and why you aren't.
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In less than 10 hours an epoch Rules and Finance meeting on 2012-212, and 2012-213 that was rescheduled because of a lack of due process will take place in council chambers.
Yesterdays RCDPHS subcommittee meeting would have you believe that there is no communication at all between the Mayors office and the city council.
A complete and total absolute Government takeover and just give us all the Authority in the world with little or no oversite and we will solve everything. That is the impression that was left with people who were there and heard what may happen.
Who wants to be a 501-c?
2010-675 USS Adams - one amendment
2010-604, 2011-560, 2012-212, Ron Barton memo, Shipyards/Landmar- one lousy amendment for just 25' or 50' to our Historic Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier.
Are you kidding me! We are a JOKE!
I am Downtown and why you aren't.
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remember that Lisa Rinaman is now the Riverkeeper
Still haven't heard back from the administration on a resolution of support for the Historic Promised 680'Downtown Public Pier (Shipyards III)
that she told an Urban Core CPAC when she was a guest speaker.
City council meeting Tues.
Waterways Wend.
Councilman Redman single handidly is leading the conspiracy to just crush and destroy the Public Trust as it relates to Public Access and Economic opportunity to our St. Johns River our American Heritage River a Federal Initiative.
Don't be afraid of this.
A complete and total Govt. takeover of our Downtown.
And you can't have one pier for the Public outside the control of the DIA?
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Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting in an hour.
Epoch opportunity for chair of Waterways Don Redman to reclaim Public Access and Economic opportunity by attaching an amendment to 2012-212 that could keep the Public Pier outside the control of this yet to be voted on DIA.
Don Shea has said that he can support a friendly amendment.
Councilman Gaffney has called me and said that he wants the pier separate.
What is the penalty for trespassing at the marina at Berkman Plaza-Plaza at Berkman? Nobody knew at the recent Urban Core CPAC meeting. Is one slip of the 50 slip marina allowed for the PUBLIC?
The Pier and the marina are important as it relates to a safety issue for kayaking downtown. This was brought to the attention of elected officials at numerous Public meetings.
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Jacksonville is so Lost and needs to FIND FIND.
The May 9Th Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting was full of hide and seek as it relates to FIND.
Going from the Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting minutes of the April 11, 2012 in attendance: Council members Don Redman chair, John Crescimbeni vice chair, Gary Anderson, Lane Burnett, Edward Fleming, Ralph Hodges, Raymond Pringle, Scott Shine, Stephen Swann, Penny Thompson, state Representative Lake Ray; councilmembers Jim Love, Robin Lumb, Bill Bishop was excused; Kristina Nelson OGC; Dr. Quinton White, Dr. Gerard Pinto JU; Capt. Jim Suber Waterwys coordinator COJ; Jessica Stephens, Legislative Assistant; Lisa Rinaman, St. Johns Riverkeeper; Tera Meeks, Chief Waterfront Management; Capt. Mike Getchell Jacksonville Marine Transportation Exchange; Dave Roman, Administration; James McLaughlin, National Oceanic &Atmospheric Administration; Capt. Roger Bump, Capt. Vic Tison, John Nooney, Recreational Fishing Alliance; David Chapman, Financial News & Daily Record; Scott Wilson, Donna Barrow, Kevin Kuzel, Executive Council Assistants; John J. Jackson, Council Research Division.
First on the agenda was pending legislation that will be voted on at the 5/22/12 Jacksonville city council meeting and its a resolution 2012-273 for 4 FIND (Florida Inland Navigation District) projects.
The Public Trust has just been crushed in this community.
Jacksonville is Lost.
FIND is Good.
Some amendments will be attached to this resolution. There is no doubt that there will be a reevaluation of the FIND process in Duval county.
Who will get the million dollar payday for Palms Fish Camp?
2012-212 the city re-org can still have an amendment attached as it relates to the Pier. That is a fact. Still waiting on the letter from the Riverkeeper. The commissioners of FIND represent the east coast of the state of Florida. We are a joke.
Do you really believe for a second that we are getting more Public Access and Economic Opportunity on our St. Johns River our American Heritage River a Federal Initiative in our Downtown Authority Zone? We aren't!
I am Downtown and why you aren't.
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I am Downtown and why you aren't.
Shortly I'll be embarking on an epic paddle that will attempt to reclaim Public Access and Economic opportunity to our St. Johns River our American Heritage River a Federal Initiative in the recent city council action of 2012-273.
I'll be on the Nortbank and will include a Vivian Harrell blue bag cleanup of Hogans Creek and also will do a cleanup of the kayak launch at Sidney Gefen Park.
Two contests
1. Post here the color of my kayak and paddle and win lunch with me at Firehouse Subs. In case of a tie the first post wins.
2. Meet me when I arrive at the kayak launch at Sidney Gefen Park and I'll hand you a $50 bill. Sign a release, take some pictures and we'll be using that promotion all over the country to illustrate how Lost we are.
The Public Trust has been crushed in this community.
I am Downtown and why you aren't.
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Just got back from making a scene Downtown on our Waterway. An awesome paddle.
When I arrived at the kayak launch at Sidney Gefen Public works was fixing the bridge.
Mayor Brown get another kayak launch sign ready. You are Making It Happen.
Will share the epoch story with all of you later. Was able to hear the entire First Coast Connect show with Melissa Ross. And Kerry Speckman on whats going on this weekend.
Will post more later.
I am Downtown and why you aren't.
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MJ'ers Please help.
After attending Tuesday's Jacksonville city council meeting and the vote on 2012-273 FIND list and being the last speaker for Public comment I wanted to get back Downtown on the water and get ready to show everyone that if you think we will be getting more Public Access and Economic opportunity to our Waterways we will be getting less.
The purpose of this trip was completely different. I brought a touring kayak and just wanted to get a sense of time between identifiable safety zones that can happen now if this community is serious about opening our waterway Downtown to non motorized craft. We do have unique Downtown River Activities that makes our Downtown a Waterway Destination for visitors and locals.
I put in at the new kayak launch at the public marina at metro park after doing a one bag Vivian Harrell blue bag clean up at Hogans Creek. The marina was empty. I started just after 9 and brought a pocket radio so I could tune in to First Coast connect. The weather conditions were Chamber of Commerce.
The paddle out of the empty marina and into the empty river was so peaceful. It was an incoming tide and I just hugged the bulkheads of the Northbank. The entrance to Hogans Creek and that massive dredging project that was never before Waterways was now complete. I took it in to the shopping cart depth meter chart and two wheels are exposed. I take it back out to the river and continue to follow the bulkheads along the Northbank. There is a space between all the piers that's allows you to paddle between the bulkhead and the piers. I'm making great time and I've just been booking it and covering a route that is fun and unique. Paddling along the bulkhead I see someone walking on the bulkhead in the distance. Not a common sight. As we approach and say good mornings she is staying at The Hyatt and comes to Jacksonville for business and said that she has never seen anyone kayaking Downtown. She kayaks and in the future we may Make it Happen. I told her about kayaking under the TU. She's All IN!
This slight time delay was not a big deal. I decided not to take it under Berkman Plaza or the Duval county courthouse parking lot. When I got to the Landing I took a water break and was listening to Melissa and Kerry about all the events that are happening this weekend. The fountain seems to be fixed. Yeah! A train was crossing the river and not one boat was on the river. Again the river is glass. After the water break I take it right to Sidney Gefen Park. Upon arrival there are a half a dozen guys fixing the bridge. Had a nice conversation with the guys and they did a nice job.
I kayak underneath and get out on the sandy launch and did another Vivian Harrell blue bag cleanup. With the bridge fixed all Mayor Brown has to do is put up a new kayak launch sign. Public, Private, Partnership?
The trip back to the city marina kayak launch without any interuption took just over 40 minutes. We need more safety zones Downtown.
Who's next?
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Who's next?
A statewide issue as it relates to 2012-273. The Public Trust destroyed. Pull the tape.
Who wants to make a scene Downtown?
PM me.
We Khan Make It Happen.
Who wants to FIND FIND?
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Believe it or not I kayaked and fished by the Historic Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier and caught 6 trout. And I didn't get wet. Just after 9 the sun came out and I said the window is open so I needed to go before it closes.
Also after 9 I'm listening to 89.9 fm and First Coast Connect with Melissa Ross and before her show is over I'm kayaking on our river that is calm and is sleek as glass. I love that show.
I put in at the kayak launch at the marina at Metro Park and my initial plan was to take it all the way Downtown. We all know that it was just a monsoon earlier all over town with heavy rains. But right now the sun is shining and the water levels are high. Its an incoming tide so as I exit the marina (just one boat) and I'm now in front of Hogans Creek and a dolphin breaks the surface a 100' off my starboard side. Just saw one and watched 3 or 4 times and that was it. But what a start for just being on the water 10 minutes.
Again with an incoming tide and high water levels to begin with the piers that at times you could paddle under are just a foot from even showing that a space could exist there. So as I'm out in the river a heading toward Downtown I keep looking at the pier that is right in front of me and given the unusual circumstances it just looked as if I could just kayak up and fish right next to the pier. And that is what I did.
I'm about 75' from the tip of the pier. Looking at the school board building. I have some shrimp and mud minnows. I've got one rod with a jig and another with a 1 0z weight and leader with a circle hook. the rods were bending over but you could just tell that it wasn't like a 30" red under the Duval county courthouse parking lot. I caught the trout on both the shrimp and mud minnows. They were all about 11" - 14 inches.
I wish I could have stayed longer but the temporary blue Sky's were turning grey and it was time to take it back. The river is still calm and the paddling was very easy. There was garbage floating everywhere so it was a cleanup that you could do effortlessly as you paddle back.
Here is another observation. There are these birds. little swifts that during the drought weeks had nests and would congregate under some of these bulkheads. I'm paddling back and these birds are now unable to get back in because this area for this particular colony of birds there nesting areas are now totally under water. Like I said just an observation.
As I'm about to enter the marina another dolphin or maybe it was the same one was breaking the surface about a 100 yards away. What a way to start and finish a paddle in another Downtown Destination Activity. Total time just over two hours and that's back at the house.
I've heard back from the administration and I hope that we can FIND FIND this year. I had a blast at the Pier today.
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Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting in 4 1/2 hours. Anyone going? Who gets the credit when we explain to our regional partners that we are just crushing and destroying Public Access and Economic Opportunity in our Downtown?
FIND is good.
Jacksonville is LOST.
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City council meeting tonight and if an amendment is not attached to the new city reorg that would keep the Shipyards III Historic Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier outside the control of this yet to be voted on Downtown Authority then we certainly shouldn't be called an American Heritage River let alone a great River.
I'm sorry I don't have a more detailed report on the June 13, 2012 Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting chaired by Jacksonville city councilman Don Redman (I will write more about it later) but a highlight of the meeting was the throwing under the bus of Tera Meeks when it came to 2012-273 and the recent FIND grant applications. The Commissioners of FIND are just going to laugh at us. We are a joke.
The new St. Johns Riverkeeper arrived during the meeting and left before it was over so I never got a chance to ask about the letter of support on the pier.
Be concerned. The circumventing of our ad volorem tax revenue in a citizen participatory process during the FIND special subcommittee on canoe and kayak launch process is an embarassment. We just left $500,000 on the table.
I'm excited now to be working with Dave Roman and hope we Khan Make It Happen with FIND in 2013.
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2012-402
Is this positive or negative legislation?
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City council meeting tonight. Public Hearing tonight on 402. City council can still do something on 2012-364 as it relates to the pier.
Still haven' posted from the last Waterways meeting. Another eye opener.
Any council member can attach an amendment to 364 that could keep the pier outside the control of this new DIA. Councilman Gaffney has called me and said that he can support that. Don Shea has told Scott Wilson and Don Redman that he could support that as well. Don Shea does not have the legislative Authority to do so but supports the idea. Props to councilman Jim Love and others on this issue too.
The pier is in Redman's district and so he is still the councilman that everyone seems to be waiting for to make a motion on this issue. The Public Trust has been destroyed in this community. Everyone should not be sheep on this. Intuition Ale is a wake up call for all of us on this DOWNTOWN DESTINATION ACCESS POINT. Especially as it relates to our REGIONAL partners and Access to our St. Johns River our American Heritage River a Federal Initiative.
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Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting in 4 hours.
Councilman Jim Love is the new chair of Waterways.
Councilwoman Lori Boyer is the vice chair.
The only piece of legislation on the agenda is 2012-402. FIND, FIND, FIND
We are so LOST.
This is not positive legislation.
If an amendment is not attached to 2012-364 to address the pier. Then the issue immediately escalates throughout the state to the Governor and the entire East Coast of the state of Florida.
We are talking about the circumventing of the ad volorem property tax revenue during a Public Process of FIND.
Still hoping for a letter from the Administration. RK
Shipyards III The Public Trust completely and totally destroyed.
2012-402? I'm not making this up. Why is this legislation even there.
Be Concerned.
Does anybody Care?
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The 8/15/12 Jacksonville Waterways Commission Meeting had just one piece of legislation on the agenda. 2012-402- We are so Lost.
So who wants to reclaim Public Access and Economic opportunity to our St. Johns River our American Heritage River a Federal Initiative?
I'm All In?
Going from the minutes of the June 13, 2012 in Attendance council members Don Redman (Chair); John Crescimbeni (vice chair); Commissioners Gary Anderson, Lane Burnett, Ed Fleming, Ralph Hodges, Bishop and Lake Ray were excused and Caryn Carreiro was absent; Asst. OGC Kristina Nelson; Dr. Quinton White and Dr. Gerry Pinto JU; Captain Jim Suber Waterways Coordinator; Jessica Stephens Legislative Asst; Dave Roman Administration; Lisa Rowe Rinaman St. Johns Riverkeeper (Administration); Kelley Boree, Director, Parks& Recreation Dept; Tera Meeks, Chief,Waterfront management; Dave Kaufman, Jaxport; Geoffrey Sample, SJRWMD; Captain Michael Getchell, Jacksonville Marine Transportation Exchange; Atty. Tom Ingram; John Nooney, St. Johns Riverkeeper; Fred Atwell; Mark Middlebrook, Andrea Conover, St. Johns River Alliance; Amanda Hodges; Richard Becker; Atty. Paul Hardin; Tommy Harper; Joe Wilhelm Financial News and Daily Record; Gerie Leigh; Scott Wilson,Executive council Asst. to Don Redman; John J. Jackson, Council Research Division.
The only change request to the minutes was offered by new Waterways Chair councilman Jim Love and that was to change Lisa Rowe to Lisa Rinaman. So moved and we were off to 2012-402
This legislation had to do with the last FIND (Florida Inland Navigation District) grant application cycle. Duval county as well as other counties pay ad valorem property taxes each year. The money is collected and then disbursed back to each county and then projects with a potential funding source are identified. Then they are sent back to FIND for approval.
So why the legislation now. because we love doing back room deals and keeping the Public in the dark and not in the sunshine. What really started this was the special FIND subcommittee meeting on canoe and kayak launches with outgoing FIND commissioner Mike Messiano and acting chair Gary Anderson. Tom Ingram as well as other kayak businesses were outspoken about some project expenditures. And Tom if your out there just jump in. Tom, you kept hammering them about the zoo dredge and they listened. But the amount of money for the zoo dredge as opposed to numerous other less expensive launches seems to have won out. So props to Mayor Brown, Dave Roman and the new kayak launches throughout the city.
So at Waterways yesterday the sponsor of the bill Crescimbeni wasn't there. Is this an emergency? NO. Actually it was pretty tough to watch and listen to. With new committee assignments Jim Love is now the chair of Waterways and Lori Boyer is the vice chair and John Crescimbeni is the 3rd city council member and Stephan Joost is the alternate. Commissioners were searching for the explanations and you are listening to "I wish Crescimbeni was here to speak to the bill". Ah Heck. We'll just go ahead and pass it anyway. Crescimbeni was at another meeting and did join the meeting later.
Hey! You all ready for this. So during Public Comment. And they start the clock for me. First speaker got a pass. (Inside joke you had to be there) So we just pass this sweeping FIND legislation. And there is no FIND update sheet on the table. Just remember we left $500,000 of our ad valorem property tax money on the table this year.
Get ready for Palms Fish Camp. Who is getting a million dollar payday for doing nothing?
We were all given a handout. Palms Boat Ramp Floating Dock repair $14,796 is the most expensive charge on this list.
Hey Springfield
Hogan Street Dock repair $1,059.79
Repair Hogan Street Gangway $3,160.72
The one that is getting to me and is in my hood is Remove Tree out from Water at Pottsburg Creek $1,959.12. CG7 I'll split it with you. Props to councilwoman Boyer and Love because they seem to be looking at attempts for savings and this is just a sampling of expenditures with no competitive bids.
I'll post more later.
The Public Trust just completely destroyed.
So who wants to fish and kayak under the brand new no fishing signs that was never before Waterways?
I am Downtown and why you may never be.
Special shout out to Team Jacksonville.
The 5 IBM Smarter Cities Challenge members whose report in the weeks ahead will guide us for life.
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Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting in 5 1/2 hours. City council chambers at 9:30 am. Open to the Public. Should be a short meeting.
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Jacksonville is so LOST. Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting in 4 days, 9:30 am council chambers.
Going from the minutes from the Aug. 15, 2012 Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting in attendance: Jacksonville city council members Jim Love (Chair), Lori Boyer (Vice Chair), John Crescimbeni; Commissioners Gary Anderson, Lane Burnett, Edward Fleming, Ralph Hodges, Ray Pringles, Scott Shine, Stephen Swann; Penny Thompson was excused. OGC Jim McCain; Dr. Quinton White, Dr. Gerard Pinto, Jacksonville University; Capt. Jim Suber, Waterways Coordinator/Dockmaster COJ; Legislative Assistant Jessica Stephens; Tera Meeks, Chief Waterfront Management; Geoffrey Sample, SJRWMD; Lisa Rinaman, St. Johns Riverkeeper; Capt. Mike Getchell, Jacksonville Marine Transportation Exchange; Dave Roman, Mayors Office; Jody McDaniel, Planning & Development; Janie Thomas, Executive Director, Shrimp Producers Association; Captain Roger Bump, Recreational Fishing Alliance; John Nooney, Recreational Fishing Alliance; Kevin Kuzel, ECA for Jim Love; Joe Wilhelm, Financial news and Daily Record; John J. Jackson, City Council Research Division.
Not on the agenda but giving a presentation was the US Coast Guard on the various Fishing Zones and the guide lines that are used in determining and enforcing the various areas. Downtown is open for business.
On the agenda was a presentation by the St. Johns Riverkeeper, Lisa Rinaman. She talked about Georgia Pacific, Silver Springs, The Port Authority dredge, and the selling off of Conservation lands. She didn't stay for the whole meeting but was able to ask her before she left I got up and asked her in the back (didn't want to interupt the meeting)if she would still write that letter of support that I could take to the Jacksonville city council about the Historic Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier (Shipyards III) and she again said "yes."
Also at the meeting was follow up for the Artificial Reef Program, Oak Harbor boat ramp.
Discussion about the future involvement of JU and that was ultimately put back in the last city budget. I support that.
There were 4 speakers for Public comment.
One speaker Mike Hollingsworth with the Army Corps of Engineers wanted to address some information that had been given by St. Johns Riverkeeper Lisa Rinaman in regards to the Jacksonville Harbor Dredge. Current Reviews will be using Upper Level Reviews (whatever that means). They are still evaluating the depth of the dredge. 44', 46', or 50'. The big correction was to the timeline.
April 2013 Draft Report
April 2014 Final Report
As for me during Public Comment I told the commissioners that after 5 years I still don't have a sponsor (city council member) that I can take to the Commissioners of FIND for a Pocket Pier/ Floating Dock. After 5 years the message to FIND will be 2012-402 and legislation about FIND projects that now should be in the open as to back room deals. Remember that we left over $500,000 on the table during the last FIND grant application cycle. Who gets the credit for that?
In the interim who wants to kayak and fish under the brand new No Fishing signs that was never before Waterways. Or the Super dredge of Hogans Creek that also was never before Waterways.
Who together wants to FIND FIND?
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Yes a pier in and of itself is fine. It makes a lot of sense and should be done as promised years ago. All I'm saying is that the carnival like atmosphere stuff won't work without the surrounding property having uses that draw heavy foot traffic to the area.
Lake you are right in that the heavy foot traffic is also needed. What I hope that people realize is that and I may be off with this but our Depts are are becoming centralized.
We now have Parks,Recreation,Entertainment and now to include Conservation. Shipyards/Landmar and its just dumb luck that we are getting it back will now focus on flex space with more special events that will generate revenue for the city. If that is the plan then OK.
The Pier and those that want to embark on the entrepreneurial spirit can be allowed to do so and then be outside of the special events guidelines that are imposed on special events and be able to operate when the heavy foot traffic isn't there.
The use of containers because we are a port city. They can be retrofitted for commercial use. Sturdy. Show up and open the door and your in business.
Types of business.
Food container.
Exercise container
Art container
Sportsmans container
Informational container.
Food trucks will just be around the corner today from the Historic Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier (Shipyards III) at the Duval County Courthouse Parking lot. They start at 11.
I have a Three Layers Gift card for the first MJ'er that posts a pic with their Food truck fare next to the pier. There should be a blue bag message that should also be shown in the pic. You can't miss it. It's next to the fence that won't allow us access.
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The Oct. 10, 2012 Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting had me saying to myself that Jacksonville is so LOST and needs to FIND FIND in the SUNSHINE!
Going from the Sept. 19 minutes in attendance City council members Jim Love, (Chair), Lori Boyer (Vice Chair), John Crescimbeni; Commissioners Gary Anderson, Ed Fleming, John Godfrey, Ralph Hodges, Scott Shine, Stephen Swann; Lane Burnett, Ray Pringles, Penny Thompson, and state representative Lake Ray were excused; OGC Kristina Nelson; Dr. Quinton White, Dr. Gerard Pinto, JU; Capt. Jim Suber, Waterways Coordinator; Legislative Asst. Marilyn Allen; Calvin ( Director), Gary Kresel, Jody McDaniel, Planning Department; Dave Roman, Administration; Lisa Rinaman, St. Johns Riverkeeper; Lt. Commander Robert S. Butts, United States Coast Guard; Mike Hollingsworth, United States Army Corps of Engineers; Janie Thomas, Executive Director, Shrimp Producers Assoc.; O.Wayne Young, Governmental Affairs, JEA; Ron Littlepage, Steve Patterson, Dave Bauerlein, Times Union; Joe Wilhelm, Daily Record; Geoff Sample, SJRWMD; Capt. Vic Tison, John Nooney, Recreational Fishing Alliance; Bill Parker; Amanda Hodges; ECA Kevin Kuzel (Love), Connie Holt; Damian Cook, Intern, Dist.14/ Ethics Officer; John J. Jackson, Council Research Division.
First on the agenda and the best part of the meeting for me was the artificial Reef Subcommittee Update by Commissioner Scott Shine. The minutes of the Oct. 3 Artificial Reef subcommittee meeting were also made available to the Public in addition to other material relevant to the meeting. Commissioner Shine and councilwoman Boyer who were both at the subcommittee meeting are moving this Public, Private, Partnership through the legislative process in the Sunshine that when this is all said and done will be a huge story throughout the state of Florida in my opinion.
The coordinated effort of the agencies involved and the accelerated recognition that you could be the one holding this entire project up is there in the open and if anything it's having the effect that more groups want to jump on board and be a part of this win/win for the city of Jacksonville and the citizens of Florida.
Commissioner Shine noted that FWC needs to write an opinion.
Coastal Conservation Commission is taking a leading role.
Councilwoman Boyer is following up on the Overland Street Project that could supply the material for the reef.
The list is long and all positive. it's happening.
Next on the agenda
Georgia-Pacific Pipeline Update. And whoever is leading this it was left blank. Chairman Love mentioned that the Administration (RK) wasn't there to give an update due to family matters. OK. But we're the Georgia Pacific people even invited. Was an offer extended? Hey, Georgia Pacific your on the agenda for the Jacksonville Waterways Commission. We're going to be talking about you. You have anything to say? Just asking if a phone call had been made.
Next on the agenda was Dr. White and Dr. Pinto from JU.
Then Old Business
New Business:
In New Business Commissioner Lane Burnett addressed the commissioners about a recent trip to Exchange Club Island and then holds up and mentions to the members a handout that he had for them. Sitting out in the audience your thinking OK, You guys see it but the Public doesn't. Last time there was this discussion it went back to the nightmare subcommittee meeting on canoe and kayak launches with then outgoing FIND commissioner Mike Messiano and the manipulation of information that was then brought back to the Waterways Commission members and lets not forget what then happened we left $ 500,000 on the table with the removal of two projects at a full city council meeting and then legislation 2012-402. An embarrassment for Jacksonville and FIND.
I felt so sorry for Dave Roman at this meeting because when discussion was occurring he was looking around the room and Tera Meeks wasn't there to answer any questions. Kelley Boree wasn't there. Jody McDaniel wasn't there. And we didn't have a FIND update. Heck, you don't even see the Port Authority rep at the meetings any more.
There were 3 speakers for Public comment.
The first was a member of the Recreational Fishing Alliance and he addressed the lack of access for fishing in newly constructed bridge areas.
Geoff Sample with SJRWMD gave a breakdown of the recent District Land Assesment program.
Key dates. Oct. 25 6pm. In Palatka for a Public meeting.
Oct. 25 at 7pm at the cruise terminal is also a Public meeting which will be talking about the dredging in the river. If I had to pick one I'd be going to the dredge meeting.
As for me during Public Comment I was applauding councilwoman Boyer and Scott Shine for the work that they are doing together with others on this project. There may have been more people at the subcommittee meeting then attended Wend full Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting. Just don't lose the momentum. I mentioned to the members that I still don't have a sponsor to take to the commissioners of FIND. The Commissioners are in south Florida but will soon be making the loop back up north. Mentioned the Shipyrds III pier. We need to restore the Public Trust.
So who wants to kayak and fish Downtown under the brand new no fishing signs that was never before Waterways?
Let's all join Mayor Brown Downtown on the St. Johns River our American Heritage River a Federal Initiative.
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^ Is there an event for the river that Mayor Brown will be attending?
If so, when will it be? And what are the details?
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Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting in less than 24 hours. 9:30 am council chambers. Has anyone seen an agenda? Anyone going?
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The November 14, 2012 Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting will soon have Tony Allegretti who has been asked to have a presentation for the next DIA Board meeting on the branding for our city will have playing softly in the background the song "You are my SUNSHINE, My only SUNSHINE" We are so Lost and need to FIND FIND in the Sunshine in Jacksonville.
The total crushing of the Public Trust continues to happen in this community.
What we all have to remember is FIND is good. Jacksonville is LOST.
Going from the Oct. 10, 2012 minutes in attendance: Councilmembers Jim Love ( Chair), Lori Boyer (Vice Chair), John Crescimbeni; Commissioners Gary Anderson, Lane Burnett, Ed Fleming, John Godfrey, Ralph Hodges, Raymond Pringle, Scott Shine, Stephen Swann, Penny Thompson; State Representative Lake Ray was excused; OGC Kristina Nelson (Who announced that it was her last meeting, Hey Greg Radlinski-Want to come back?), Dr Quinton White, Dr Gerry Pinto, JU, Capt. Jim Suber Waterways Coordinator,Jessica Stephens, Legislative Assistant, Dave Roman, Mayor's Office; Vince Seibold, Chief, Environmental Quality Division; Geoff Sample, SJRWMD, Capt. Mike Getchell, Jacksonville Marine Transportation Exchange; Craig Van Brocklin, John Nooney, Recreational Fishing Alliance; Ron Littlepage, FTU; Bill Parker, Charles Wingfield; ECA Kevin Kuzel (Love), John J. Jackson, Council Research Division.
One of the highlights on the agenda and a presentation by Janie Thomas, Executive Director, Shrimp Producers Association was the reopening of Oyster and Clam Beds in Duval county.
Another item on the agenda was by Athena T Mann, VP Environmental Services, JEA
Also on the agenda was the St. Johns Riverkeeper. I asked about the letter of support on the Shipyards III pier as we were walking in together so that I can take it to the city council and now our DIA. It's coming.
It was a long meeting and I left at one point to go out and extend my time in the meter because the last time I was Downtown I got a $15 parking ticket. 2012-674 is the parking legislation that may soon prohibit me from doing that. Extending my time.
Anyway I'm getting my Public Comment card prepared and Tom Ingram who was instrumental in last years PUBLIC FIND grant application cycle appears and sits a few seats away. Dave Roman and Tom exit the back briefly and come back and Tom leaves the meeting.
Noticeably absent from the meeting again is Tera Meeks who is the Chief of all our Preservation Park Lands, Kelley Boree who is in charge of our Parks. And Jody McDaniel who is our FIND person. Now mind you the Commissioners of FIND are meeting in Jacksonville in two days. Mind you. Every meeting there is a FIND update on the table for the commissioners and the Public. So at the end of the meeting during Public Comments about 2 1/2 hours later I ask what happened to the FIND update and then all of a sudden OH! HERE IT IS. Was there a PUBLIC meeting like last year on this? Total destruction of the PUBLIC TRUST. This is our ad valorem property tax revenue. Who should be fired for circumventing this process? Governor Scott, Can't wait to hear what you have to say about this. It's not your fault. I have that letter where we talked about the Historic Promised 680 ' Downtown Public Pier Shipyards III.
The FIND project list has 12 projects.
Sisters ICW dock redesign
County Road Kayak Launch
Alamacani dock
Lighting at BR
Harborview Dredging
Half Moon Island
Reed Island
Charles Reese BR dock
Exchange Island Dock
geffen Riverwalk kayak launch and piling removal
San Marco Lake kayak access point and parking plan
Continuation of Blue Cypress boardwalk
After the meeting the council members that I talked with as well as some of the Jacksonville Waterways Commission members were totally clueless to this list. HOW WRONG!
I went to the Board meeting of our new DIA and showed them the secret list. This is not good.
Yesterday, I went to the meeting of the Commissioner of the Florida Inland Navigation District and showed them our secret list. The problem is not the commissioners of FIND.
I can't wait for the next Board meeting of our DIA and the branding for our city.
Visit Jacksonville- If you can FIND us.
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I guess John Nooney is a prophet, of sorts.
per a spokesperson with FDOT,
tying Met park to the Northbank Riverwalk and the Main St. bridge, via the grassy openness between the River and Maxwell house IS on the agenda.
More to come for the former JEA Southside generating "brown field" following the full interchange at I95 and Atlantic, which will ultimately spruce up the visual sightlines of the OSteen Volvo dealership with ponds and fountains on each side.
Still wish that pesky Ramp Q alignment would allow for a full intersection at Mitchell for the sake of direct access to the Square.
The pier is still there, DO NOT GIVE UP!
SPEAK UP.
clearly.
So that we may ALL understand you, Sir Noone.
Break it down, and give us an idea what we are arguing FOR during our scant few minutes in front of the mic at the podium in council chambers.
For those among us who clam up when we hear our voice amplified, paraphrase, but ONLY AFTER you have broken apart the argument and made the case clear and stated succinctly.
PLEASE.
So we may all perhaps show up with butts in seats and actually care and UNDERSTAND that you are not a babbler.
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2012-402- Let's go city council members.
let's go Mayor Brown.
Today in less than 3 hours a Jacksonville Waterways Committee meeting on the Secret FIND list that was kept from the full meeting of the Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting 11/14/12.
Will anyone from the DIA be there?
Anyone from the media?
The complete and total crushing of the Public Trust.
It's just a list.
Will the Historic Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier (Shipyards III) be put on the 2013 FIND grant application list?
This is a now a DIA/ CRA issue in the USA.
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2 days out from Massive disclosures of projects and intentions that are on the agenda for the the next Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting. Anyone going? Secret FIND list is on the agenda for Duval county. 2012-402.
Still waiting on a letter of support from the administration on the Historic Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier. Shipyards III
Anyone want to kayak and fish Downtown under the brand new No Fishing signs that was never before Waterways?
Special shout out to any elected official outside of Duval county.
Any media.
2025 is 2012
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The November 14, 2012 Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting will soon have Tony Allegretti who has been asked to have a presentation for the next DIA Board meeting on the branding for our city will have playing softly in the background the song "You are my SUNSHINE, My only SUNSHINE" We are so Lost and need to FIND FIND in the Sunshine in Jacksonville.
The total crushing of the Public Trust continues to happen in this community.
What we all have to remember is FIND is good. Jacksonville is LOST.
Going from the Oct. 10, 2012 minutes in attendance: Councilmembers Jim Love ( Chair), Lori Boyer (Vice Chair), John Crescimbeni; Commissioners Gary Anderson, Lane Burnett, Ed Fleming, John Godfrey, Ralph Hodges, Raymond Pringle, Scott Shine, Stephen Swann, Penny Thompson; State Representative Lake Ray was excused; OGC Kristina Nelson (Who announced that it was her last meeting, Hey Greg Radlinski-Want to come back?), Dr Quinton White, Dr Gerry Pinto, JU, Capt. Jim Suber Waterways Coordinator,Jessica Stephens, Legislative Assistant, Dave Roman, Mayor's Office; Vince Seibold, Chief, Environmental Quality Division; Geoff Sample, SJRWMD, Capt. Mike Getchell, Jacksonville Marine Transportation Exchange; Craig Van Brocklin, John Nooney, Recreational Fishing Alliance; Ron Littlepage, FTU; Bill Parker, Charles Wingfield; ECA Kevin Kuzel (Love), John J. Jackson, Council Research Division.
One of the highlights on the agenda and a presentation by Janie Thomas, Executive Director, Shrimp Producers Association was the reopening of Oyster and Clam Beds in Duval county.
Another item on the agenda was by Athena T Mann, VP Environmental Services, JEA
Also on the agenda was the St. Johns Riverkeeper. I asked about the letter of support on the Shipyards III pier as we were walking in together so that I can take it to the city council and now our DIA. It's coming.
It was a long meeting and I left at one point to go out and extend my time in the meter because the last time I was Downtown I got a $15 parking ticket. 2012-674 is the parking legislation that may soon prohibit me from doing that. Extending my time.
Anyway I'm getting my Public Comment card prepared and Tom Ingram who was instrumental in last years PUBLIC FIND grant application cycle appears and sits a few seats away. Dave Roman and Tom exit the back briefly and come back and Tom leaves the meeting.
Noticeably absent from the meeting again is Tera Meeks who is the Chief of all our Preservation Park Lands, Kelley Boree who is in charge of our Parks. And Jody McDaniel who is our FIND person. Now mind you the Commissioners of FIND are meeting in Jacksonville in two days. Mind you. Every meeting there is a FIND update on the table for the commissioners and the Public. So at the end of the meeting during Public Comments about 2 1/2 hours later I ask what happened to the FIND update and then all of a sudden OH! HERE IT IS. Was there a PUBLIC meeting like last year on this? Total destruction of the PUBLIC TRUST. This is our ad valorem property tax revenue. Who should be fired for circumventing this process? Governor Scott, Can't wait to hear what you have to say about this. It's not your fault. I have that letter where we talked about the Historic Promised 680 ' Downtown Public Pier Shipyards III.
The FIND project list has 12 projects.
Sisters ICW dock redesign
County Road Kayak Launch
Alamacani dock
Lighting at BR
Harborview Dredging
Half Moon Island
Reed Island
Charles Reese BR dock
Exchange Island Dock
geffen Riverwalk kayak launch and piling removal
San Marco Lake kayak access point and parking plan
Continuation of Blue Cypress boardwalk
After the meeting the council members that I talked with as well as some of the Jacksonville Waterways Commission members were totally clueless to this list. HOW WRONG!
I went to the Board meeting of our new DIA and showed them the secret list. This is not good.
Yesterday, I went to the meeting of the Commissioner of the Florida Inland Navigation District and showed them our secret list. The problem is not the commissioners of FIND.
I can't wait for the next Board meeting of our DIA and the branding for our city.
Visit Jacksonville- If you can FIND us.
FLORIDA- The SUNSHINE state. Yeah Right! Jacksonville didn't get the memo.
We are so LOST.
Going from the November 14, 2012 Jacksonville Commission meeting minutes in attendance: Council members Jim Love (Chair), Lori Boyer(Vice Chair), John Crescimbeni; Commissioners Gary Anderson, Ed Fleming, John Godfrey,Ralph Hodges, Ray Pringle, State Representative Lake Ray, Scott Shine, Stephen Swann, Penny Thompson; Lane Burnett was excused; OGC Kristina Nelson, Paige Johnston; Dr. White,Dr. Pinto, JU; Capt Jim Suber Waterways Coordinator; Jessica Stephens, Legislative Assistant; SJRK Lisa Rinaman; Dave Roman, Mayor's office; Vince Seibold, Division Chief, Environmental Quality Division Neighborhoods Dept; John Flowe, Environmental Quality Division, Janie Thompson, Executive Director, ShrimpProducers Association;James Richardson, Environmental Protection; Capt Mike Getchell, Jacksonville Marine Transportation Exchange; Capt. Roger Bump, John Nooney, Recreational Fishing Alliance; Bill Parker, Geoff Sample, SJRWMD; Attorney, Tom Ingram; Joe Wilhelm, Daily Record; John J. Jackson, Council Research Division.
First on the agenda was
City of Atlantic Beach- ICW Preserves Master Plan by Rick Carper, Atlantic Beach Public works.
Second was
Update on FIND Operations and Outlook by Mark Crosley, Asst. Executive Director, Florida Inland Navigation District.
Third was
FIND Subcommittee Update by Commissioner Gary Anderson
Fourth was
St. Johns River Status Report Water Quality and Manatee by Dr. White, Dr. Pinto, with JU
Fith was
St. Johns River Issue Update by Lisa Rinaman, St. Johns Riverkeeper
Still waiting on a letter of support from the Administration RK on the Historic Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier (Shipyards III).
Anyway, Here is the Secret Find list for the 2013 FIND Grant application cycle. Proposed list and Prioritized list.
Let's start with the above secret list. Check out the numbers
FIND Proposed Project List 2013
Project. Total Cost Estimate
Sisters ICW dock redesign $100,000
County Road Kayak Launch. $50,000
Alamacani Dock. $633,810
Lighting at BR. $244,200
Harborview Dredging. $200,000
Half Moon Island. $700,000
Reed Island. $100,000
Charles Reese Boat Ramp and Dock. $75,000
Exchange Island Dock. $110,000
Geffen Riverwalk. $90,000
San Marco Lake. $40,000
Continuation of Blue Cypress Boardwalk. $75,000
Now the Secret FIND Prioritized Project List 2013 which didn't have a noticed meeting.
Exchange Island Dock. $120,000
Sisters ICW dock redesign. $400,000
Ortega Channel Markings. $180,000
County Road Kayak Launch. $100,000
Geffen Riverwalk. $40,000
Northshore kayak launch w/ADA access. $100,000
Lighting at 4 Boat Ramps. $300,000
Reed Island. $120,000
Harborview Dredging. $300,000
Continuation of Blue Cypress Boardwalk. $100,000
Atlantic Beach. 2 observation towers. $213,000
Atlantic Beach design and permitting a walking path. $160,000
Because of 2012-402 the entire Jacksonville city council will have an opportunity to offer input on this list.
Another meeting has yet to be announced. Scott Shine and Lane Burnett were not at the last meeting that was posted Wend. Afternoon before the Thanksgiving break and took place that Monday morning at 9:30 am
This is our ad valorem property tax revenue. So much more from this meeting.
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What's the Exchange Club Island dock all about?
Seems the Geffen Riverwalk project is down considerably from it's first design/cost estimate (which was unrealistic to begin with).
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HUGE Jacksonville Waterways Subcommittee meeting tomorrow on the 2013 FIND grant application projects. 4Th floor city Hall at 10am. Open to the Public.
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Two hours out.
Just got the agenda for the Jan. 9 2013 Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting. First on the agenda.
1. SUNSHINE PRESENTATION.
Governor Scott.
Commissioners of FIND.
Members of the Jacksonville city council.
DIA Board members.
Mayor Brown.
Regional Partners.
The Historic Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier aka Bay St. Pier Park can still be put on the 2013 Jacksonville Waterways Commission subcommittee FIND list. Anyone going?
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We are so LOST.
Governor Scott, Pam Bondi, Angela Corey, help us to FIND FIND in Jacksonville in the Sunshine.
There were 3 key meetings last week.
Jan. 7 Florida Inland Navigation District (FIND) Subcommittee meeting 4Th floor Rm A
Jan. 8 Jacksonville city council meeting Public Hearing 2012-728 Walter Jones (Waive sealed Bid 10 years) Next to FIND project.
Jan. 9 Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting.
So let's start with the Jan.7 2013 FIND grant subcommittee meeting and going from the minutes in attendance Commissioners Gary Anderson, Chair, Ralph Hodges, Lane Burnett, Scott Shine; Council members Jim Love, Lori Boyer; Waterways Coordinator Capt. Jim Suber, OGC, Paige Johnston; Aaron Bowman, FIND Commissioner; Gary Kresel, Jody McDaniel, Planning Dept; Tera Meeks, Chief, Waterfront Management Programming; James Richardson, Environmental Protection Board;Dave Roman, Mayors Office; Atty, Tom Ingram; Stephen C. Davis, Jacksonville University; Capt. Vic Tison, Capt. Roger Bump, John Nooney, Recreational Fishing Alliance; Joe Wilhelm, Financial News and Daily Record; Kevin Kuzel, ECA (Love); Marilyn Allen, Legislative Assistant; John J. Jackson, Council Research Division.
David Bauerlien with the TU is listed but I didn't see him there. And Kelley Boree is not listed but was there for part of the meeting.
Tom Ingram was very active throughout the meeting and also contributed very detailed analysis for the full Waterways Commission meeting two days later.
I just want to share these observations and as a community when it gets submitted to the Full city council 2012-402 that specifics are provided and not vague generalities.
There are some items that I want to share with you. Capt. Roger Bump with the Recreational Fishing Alliance brought this up. How many design firms do we have? How many bids will we be receiving on a project? For example County Dock. On the first list given to Commission members total COJ cost is $50,000. 30 days later the cost is $100,000. How does a project jump $50,000 in 30 days? Who is the company? I know this sounds like it has Dist. 4 written all over IT. How many bids will we have Jan. 28? The next day at city council is 2012-728. What timing!
But moving on. This should be a massive RED FLAG. We now have our Prioritized List and a category has project suggested by and the whole sheet primarily has PUBLIC. Well this is our Public ad valorem property taxes. When I mentioned this Tera Meeks mentions that it may be more than one group. So what! List the sponsor and council person if applicable. I've been going to these FIND meetings and that's all I've heard and here we aren't doing it.
So anyway we are going down the list and project 11 has Council/Public the Commissioners note and recognize and say that it's Crescimbeni and they vote and approve it 4-0. God Bless Crescimbeni. This is how it should be. Enough of this behind the scenes stuff. There is no guarantee that this project will make the cut but this goes to the spirit of the process.
Somebody, anybody, ask about the status of the Pottsberg Creek dredge. we left $500,000 on the table last year. 2012-402.
This meeting also allowed for the inclusion of projects not on the list. Tom Ingram was up first or I should say he started the conversation and everyone was listening. I had eye contact with some commission members while Tom is explaining his additions it was a very positive reflection of facial expressions that my opportunity would be forthcoming.
I spoke about a pocket Pier/Floating dock next to the riverwalk at the new connection of Bay St.
When the opportunity presented itself Jim Love who is the Chair of Waterways and his assistant Kevin Kuzel after doing a site inspection of the former SHIPYARDS/LANDMAR pier had a fantastic compromise on this potential FIND project. Jim left and Kevin with his support after bringing our recommendation to the Chair of the subcommittee Gary Anderson rejected it and it received a 0-4 vote.
But just so you all know. Two days later and now Jim Love who is the Chair of Waterways and with support from fellow Commissioner Ralph Hodges have put it back on the list. This is our legislative process. It may not make it for this year but it could make it for next year. More importantly Councilman Love has directed Jody McDaniel to get a price for a Pocket Pier/Floating Dock at this location. Jody is now getting prices for all the other projects so the entire Commission can have numbers to make a better list. Everything seems to be nothing but WAGS at this point.
I hope that separate quotes are given for the piling removal at Geffen and County Dock. A number of Commissioners are looking into that request and have contacted Jody McDaniel about that. look for this important piece of information Jan. 28
In the meantime who wants to kayak out of Palmer Terrace Park Dist. 4 that doesn't have a Mayor Brown Kayak logo?
I am Downtown and why you aren't.
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LOST we are.
Governor Scott, Pam Bondi, Angela Corey, help us FIND FIND in Jacksonville.
The start of the 1/9/13 Jacksonville Waterways Commission had the start and feel of a lawyer convention instead of a Waterways Commission meeting.
Going straight from the Dec. 12, 2012 meeting minutes in attendance Council members Jim Love (Chair), Lori Boyer ( Vice Chair), John Crecimbeni; Commissioners Gary Anderson, Lane Burnett, Ed Fleming, John Godfrey, Ralph Hodges, Scott Shine, Stephen Swann, Penny Thompson, Commissioner Ray Pringle and state Representative Lake Ray were excused; OGC Paige Johnston; Dr Quinton White, Dr Gerard Pinto, Jacksonville University; Capt. Jim Suber, Waterways Coordinator; Legislative Asst. Marilyn Allen; Dave Roman, Mayors office; Tera Meeks, Chief Waterfront Management Planning; Geoff Sample, STRWMD; James Richardson, Environmental Protection Board; Vince Seibold, Chief, Environmental Quality Division; Attorney, Tom Ingram; Ron Littlepage, Florida Times Union; Kevin Kuzel, ECA; Craig Van Brocklin, John Nooney, Recreational Fishing Alliance; Capt. bill Parker; John J. Jackson, Council Research Division.
First up was a Sunshine Presentation by Jason Gabriel, General Counsels Office and Carla Miller, Office of Ethics.
I keep thinking about Palms Fish Camp and who should be getting fired for that disaster but instead did people just get promoted?
And this is next to a FIND project. So with corruption on everyone's mind it was a perfect time for a FIND subcommittee update that was next on the agenda and let's not forget that last year with Don Redman who was Chair of Waterways that we left $500,000 of our ad valorem property tax money on the table and we now have 2012-402 which will now bring to light (sunshine) the projects that will be brought to the Commissioners of FIND. Gary Anderson was the Chair of the FIND subcommittee last year so Let's have him as the Chair again this year. Makes all the sense in the world.
At the 1/16/13 DIA/CRA in the USA during the workshop the entire DIA Board members and participants that were there are now aware of the frustrations with FIND especially as we attempt to ENCOURAGE everyone to participate Downtown on our St. Johns River our American Heritage River a Federal Initiative. I digress.
So the 2013 FIND grant application projects have been put on hold until Jan. 28 because we don't have any idea of what some of these projects will cost. So Jody McDaniel will be getting prices for some of these projects that are even carry overs from last year.
My hat is off to the current Chair of Waterways Jim Love. At the 1/7/13 FIND subcommittee meeting then acting Chair Gary Anderson when suggestions from the Public had an opportunity to make the FIND list was up for discussion and debate. Gary shot down our suggestion of a floating dock pocket pier next to the Historic Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier. This compromise and suggestion was forwarded by Kevin Kuzel and Councilman Love.
Pam Bondi, Can we reopen the grand Jury Investigation into SHIPYARDS? I'm serious. The Public Trust has just been destroyed in this community.
So now Chairman Love on a supported recommendation of fellow Commissioner Ralph Hodges have put the Floating Dock next to the Pier back on the list and have directed Jody McDaniel to get a Price. This may or may not make the FIND list. This is exciting news and I'll be sharing it with the Commissioners of FIND and it's something that the administration should be doing high fives as well.
Next on the agenda was a St. Johns River status report Water Quality & Manatee update. What was exciting to hear is that the Coast Guard in working with Dr. Pinto and Dr. White may be supplementing the Ariel manatee monitoring using Coast Guard helicopters. Very cool.
Next on the agenda St. Johns River Issue update. Lisa Rinaman, St. Johns Riverkeeper was a No Show. I don't even recall any reason given and if it was even mentioned. For the record still waiting on a letter of you know what?
There was one piece of legislation Ord. 2013-13 Appropriating $287,000 grant funds from the SJRWMD for Lincoln Villas Septic Tank Phase out. $12,000,000 was the original Grant amount in 2007.
So who wants to launch from Palmer Terrace Park in Dist. 4 that needs a kayak logo and we'll then fish under the brand new No Fishing signs that was never before Waterways.
I am Downtown and why you aren't.
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3 hours out. The Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting is at 8 am to finish up on the 2013 FIND grant application cycle list so that it can be presented and voted on by the full Jacksonville city council. Special concern and reconsideration needs to be given to the brilliant Jim Love, Kevin Kuzel floating dock Riverwalk compromise next to Shipyards/Landmar III which was totally misrepresented by the OGC to the JWC members.
Be concerned. This is our ad valorem property tax revenue. The state of Florida is watching. Palms Fish Camp- A funding source?
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The 2/13/13 meeting of the Jacksonville Waterways Commission was a marathon meeting of epoch proportions that had sparks flying everywhere in persuing FIND. Most participants were hoping for one. For a process that involves our ad valorem property taxes that we all participate in you have to just be in shock that nobody shows up for this. We are LOST.
There was a special meeting of the Jacksonville Waterways Commission 1/28/13 to compile a list for the 2013 FIND grant application cycle that will be approved by the administration and city council. So going from the minutes in attendance Council member Jim Love (Chair), Lori Boyer (Vice Chair), John Crescimbeni; Commissioners Gary Anderson, Lane Burnett, Ed Fleming, John Godfrey, Ray Pringle, Scott Shine, Stephen Swann; State Representative Lake Ray, and Commissioners Ralph Hodges and Penny Thompson were excused;Capt. Jim Suber; Paige Johnston OGC; Kelley Boree, Director, Parks and Recreation Dept; Tera Meeks, Chief, Waterfront Management Programming; Gary Kresel, Jody McDaniel, Planning& Development Dept; James Richardson, Environmental Protection Board; Connie Benham; Larry Solomon, CPAC #5; Attorney Kristina Nelson; Attorney Tom Ingram; John Nooney, Recreational Fishing Alliance;David Hahn, Public Works Dept; Matt Brockelman; Joe Wilhelm, Financial News & Dailey Record; Marilyn Allen, Legislative Assistant; John J. Jackson, Council Research Division.
So the 2/13/13 full meeting of the Jacksonville Waterways Commission started at 8am and went right to the agenda and saved the FIND list for later.
Two pieces of legislation. 2013-51 $100,000 for an artificial reef. No discussion. Passed 9-0
2013-105 A resolution from the Administration and it was deferred.
Public comment was also quick and I presented a check on behalf of the Recreational Fishing Alliance to 2009 -442 the artificial reef trust fund. Once the FIND work is done lets not forget that there are 6 artificial reefs that can move forward in the river south of the Fuller Warren. I also shared with Waterways that a Potential Funding source should be the open law suit with Palms Fish Camp that is next to a FIND project. Cha Ching!
The FIND project list that was started at the 1/28/13 meeting was continued from the beginning. This was over a 5 hour meeting.
Again, I have to give props to councilman Love for a very well run meeting that allowed everyone the opportunity to participate and not just during the Public comment period. And this was for everyone during the FIND grant application process. No complaints here.
I just want to share with you my concerns and it goes back to the 1/28/13 meeting and in my opinion is the misrepresentation by OGC on the Jim Love, Kevin Kuzel kayak floating dock compromise NEXT to the Shipyards pier. Kristina Nelson who is no longer with OGC Office of General Council was now being paid to be at this meeting and render an opinion on Shipyards. There is CONTAMINATION at the Shipyards. The Love compromise has nothing to do with Shipyards.
So now at the 2/13/13 meeting we are going over the projects again and the Love,Kuzel floating dock compromise comes up again and there is now another round of excellent discussion and Paige Johnston with OGC is now fielding the questions. Catherine St. Is now listed between Shipyards and Berkman. I never noticed it until it was pointed out at the meeting. Also and this is funny. I think so. Isn't this what's going on at the Park View (contamination) So we originally have Shipyards, give the guys $36,500,000 and tell them to go for it. Was there contamination then? There out and we bring in Landmar and they put in the bulkhead. 1000's of feet of Bulkhead. Did they stir up any contamination?
We are talking about a 20 maybe 30' floating dock NEXT to Shipyards. The Love, Kuzel Compromise is brilliant. Council members Boyer and Crescimbeni asked some great questions and councilwoman Boyer is now checking in to see if this is indeed a waterfront Public Access street end and wants to know. Ben Warner, DIA, Mayor Brown, People of Jacksonville, cross your fingers.
This is just a sampling of the dialogue and discussion that was occurring. I also mentioned Palmer Terrace Park Dist. 4 that needs a Mayor Brown Kayak logo. Dave Roman and Kelley Boree were not at the meeting. But Don Redman supports the kayak logo at Palmer Terrace Park. Just need to make it happen.
Tom Ingram was there and I hope he shares some of the actions that were taken. There is a lot more. County Dock?
So in the meantime who wants to put in at Palmer Terrace Park that doesn't have a Mayor Brown kayak logo and we'll take it over and fish under the brand new No Fishing signs that was never before Waterways.
I am Downtown and why you aren't
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9 hours out. On the agenda will be the Southbank Riverwalk. There just has to be major announcements coming from the administration as it relates to Public Access and economic opportunity within this new DIA zone.
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Two hours out. Anybody going? For all of those MJ'ers that were at the city council last night and personally witnessed 2013-214 and the taxpayer expenditure of almost $20,000 for the emergency action and the waiving of competitive bids for 20 new comfy chairs you should be scared to death. The total crushing of the Public Trust. 2012-202- Free Parking!
Will be making a donation to 2009-442 the Artificial Reef Trust Fund. 6 permitted reefs south of the Fuller Warren Bridge. FDOT, Where are you? Write City of Jacksonville on the check. Put 2009-442 on the check. put in the river on the check. Public, Private, Partnership.
Will be making another plea for the Jim Love, Kevin Kuzel, Berkman floating dock compromise (Shipyards III) that was misrepresented by OGC to the Jacksonville Waterways Commission during the 2013 FIND grant application process.
Governor Scott, please help.
Ben Werner -JCCI we need to kayak Downtown before 2025.
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Yes, we do need to kayak, John.
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Ben, appreciate the response back but in an hour I'll be making another plea that in my opinion has Regional implications as to the Vision of Public Access to our Waterways especially Downtown.
We were together for the JCCI River Dance- Putting the River in River City.
Today it will be putting the PUBLIC back into Public Access.
The legislative opportunity exists right now. let's hope the legislative will can happen today instead of waiting till 2025.
Tides look good tomorrow. If Mark Woods can be a bat boy you can be my mate in the kayak.
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Does anybody care?
1st on the agenda was Presentation on St. Johns River Innitiatives- Vince Seibold, Chief, Environmental Quality Division was let go yesterday. Gone. SOL. Bye-Bye. So wrong. For sharing a concern in a Public meeting when asked a question.
FIND update on 2012 grants
Pottsburg Creek dredge $250,000. Design started. Somebody ask about this project.
Will have more later. Just one person for Public Comment.
Our St. johns River our American Heritage River a Federal Initiative in our newly created DIA zone. I'm scared to death.
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Does anybody care?
Palms Fish Camp- How do you sign up for this stuff?
Vince Seibold - Chief, Environmental Quality Division fired for sharing a concern in a Public meeting.
How many votes did the USS Adams get at One Spark?
Shipyards III
The Jim Love, Kevin Kuzel Berkman floating dock compromise misrepresented by OGC during the 2013 FIND grant application process.
Does anybody want to write a check to 2009-442? The Artificial Reef Trust Fund.
Ben - JCCI - We need to kayak Downtown before 2025.
Going from the minutes of the March, 13, 2013 Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting.
In attendance: at the Feb. 13, 2013 meeting. Council members Jim Love (Chair), Lori Boyer (Vice Chair), John Crescimbeni, Commissioners Gary Anderson, Ed Fleming, John Godfrey, Ralph Hodges, Scott Shine, Stephen Swann, Penny Thompson; Commissioners Lane Burnett, Ray Pringle, State representative Lake Ray were excused. Paige Johnston,OGC; Dr. White, Dr. Pinto, JU; Capt. Jim Suber, Waterways Coordinator; Marilyn Allen, Legislative Assistant; Tera Meeks, Chief, Waterfront Management Programming; Gary Kresel, Jody McDaniel, Planning& Development Dept. James Richardson, Environmental Protection Board; Geoffrey Sample, SJRWMD, Lisa Rinaman, St. Johns Riverkeeper; David Hahn, Public Works Dept. Atty. Tom Ingram;Larry Salomon, NW CPAC; Tracy Arpen, Sandy Arpen, Mandarin Museum & Historical Society; Gabriele Dempsey, Mandarin Museum & Historical Society; Karen Droege; John Pittman; John Nooney, Recreational Fishing Alliance; Bill Parker;Denise Highes, Jacksonville Reef Research Team; Jeff Edawards; Kevin Kuzel, ECA (Love), John J. Jackson, Council Research Division.
So on the agenda
Two pieces of legislation 2013-106, and 2013-138
III - Florida Boater Improvement Fund Expenses - Commissioner Scott Shine
IV- St. Johns River status report Water quality & Manatee- Dr. White and Dr. Pinto, JU
V- St. John River Issue update- Lisa Rinaman, St. Johns Riverkeeper
VI- Riverwalk Project- Vanessa K. Harper,
VII-OLd & new business
VIII- Public Comment
When I first heard of the Riverwalk Project my initial thought was a presentation that past Waterways Commission members had on Shipyards and Landmar and it was going to be on the upcoming North and Southbank Riverwalk improvements but instead it was a One Spark presentation. it was nice that they were on the agenda. How many votes did the USS Adams get?
made another donation to 2009-442.
The Commissioners of FIND we're in Flagler county and it will and should be a statewide joke that after 5 years and I still don't have one single sponsor to take back to the commissioners of FIND for a pocket park/Pocket Pier. The total crushing of the Public Trust. Pick and choose the winners and losers.
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Does anybody care?
13 days ago was the April 10, 2013 Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting.
So going from the minutes. At the March, 13, 2013 in attendance Council member Jim Love (Chair), Lori Boyer (Vice Chair), John Crescimbeni; Commissioners Gary Anderson, Ed Fleming, John Godfrey, Ralph Hodges, Ray Pringle, Scott Shine, Stephen Swann, Penny Thompson; Commissioner Lane Burnett, and state Rep Lake Ray were excused. Paige Johnston, OGC; Dr. White, JU; Capt. Jim Suber, Waterways Coordinator; Tera Meeks, Chief Waterfront Management Programming; James Richardson, Environmental Protection Board; Vince Seibold, Chief, Water Quality Division; Capt. mike Getchell, Jacksonville Marine Transportation Exchange; Lisa Rinaman, St. johns Riverkeeper; Geoffrey Sample, SJRWMD; Radha Pyati, UNF; Lt. Commander Robert Butts, USCG; Mike Hollingsworth, United States Army Corps of Engineers; Marilyn Allen, Legislative Asst. John J. Jackson, City Council Research Division
So to the agenda
I- Approval of minutes.
II- Presentation of St. johns River Innitiatives- Vince Seibold, Chief, Environmental Quality Division- FIRED the day before.
III- St. Johns River Status Report
Water Quality & Manatee - Dr. White, Dr. Pinto, JU
IV- St. Johns River Issue Update- Lisa Rinaman, St. Johns Riverkeeper
V- Old Business, New Business
VI - Public Comment
During Public Comment made another donation to 2009-442. The Artificial Reef Trust Fund. 6 permitted reefs south of the Fuller Warren Bridge.
Mentioned the Jim Love, Kevin Kuzel Berkman Floating dock compromise Shipyards III that was misrepresented by OGC during the 2013 FIND grant application process.
I've given up on asking you know who about you know what.
Palms Fish Camp- Corruption
Seriously looking for any FBI guys or gals interested in a RICO paddle Downtown. Bonus if you have your fishing license. We'll take it under the brand new No Fishing signs that was never before Waterways.
Don Redman, Scott, Dave did we get any votes or honorable mentions for Palmer Terrace Park? How about a kayak logo at Sydney Gefen Park? Berkman Floating dock next to Shipyards?
Ben- JCCI- We need to kayak Downtown before 2025.
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So Noone, are you going to have a booth at the Rivercity Challenge and Eco Fest this Saturday?
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^Not this year. I do wish them well and success with their event. Had a blast last year.
I'll be at the great meeting of the LOST today at 1 pm 4th floor city hall. Shipyards III appears to be real. The complete and total absolute destruction of the Public Trust. In my opinion this will be nothing more than a dog and pony show. I really hope the FBI shows up.
Wake up Jacksonville!
Our Waterways should be exploding with vibrancy and activity. Who deserves the FBI RICO award for the Waterways?
Pick and choose the winners and losers.
Palms Fish Camp, Palms Fish Camp, Palms Fish Camp next to a FIND project. Who wrote the contract from OGC? A million bucks and you never even open up the door. Sign me up for this stuff. How do you participate in the circle of corruption?
Does everyone remember the original grand jury Investigation into Shipyards? $36,500,000 GONE.
Super Duper props to Boyer, Love, Kuzel and the soon to be world wide famous Berkman Plaza floating dock compromise ( Shipyards III) misrepresented by OGC to the Waterways Commission during the 2013 FIND grant application process. Our ad valorem property taxes. Governor Scott- Please help.
Under Redman we left $500,000 of FIND money on the table. He was Chair of Waterways at the time.
Under Redman $250,000 the Pottsburg Creek dredge. If not complete we will lose $250,000
Mayor Brown 6 artificial Reefs south of the Fuller Warren Bridge already permitted and may be able to be done for $100,000 or less. 2009-442. Does anyone want to write a check for a buck? FDOT is aware of the issue as is Waterways.
Downtown Jacksonville Public Pier- Each launch is a Spark.
Ben- JCCI we need to kayak Downtown before 2025
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Noone,
Please pardon my inability to decipher exactly what you are stating.
Could you please elaborate and help me understand your stanzas?
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^ Agreed. Sounds like the Waterways Commission have driven you mad.
- What is the Palms Fish Camp corruption?
- Are we missing out on money from FIND?
- What is the story on six artificial reefs? What is the benefit?
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I am glad that the river has such an advocate. But maybe explain in better detail what you're saying. I wish someone would be that aggressive with JTA. I'm trying, but am not politically correct enough. (you all have seen my posts) I'm trying to evolve my way of thinking and speaking. Going to public forums such as JAX2025 is really helpfull to me.
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I agree the public should have use of this pier. The bill that is currently before the City Council brings the property back to the City of Jacksonville. Once we own the property we can decide the best uses. I really do not see any reason to split City property up. It will cost money to survey and rewrite legal descriptions and record new deeds. I am not against legislation that requires the pier be kept a part of the public space including the public space where I hope to see a completed Riverwalk. I do think the plan should be well thought out. We should include the Parks Dept and JEDC. We need to make sure it is safe, possibly adding guard rails or whatever else may be needed.
Scott A. Wilson
Assistant to Don Redman
Jacksonville City Council
District Four
904-630-1394
The 5/3/13 Downtown Experience subcommittee meeting of the new DIA and the announcement that there is an RFI! RFP! that is hitting the streets for the next 30 days on the entire Shipyards III property and sitting next to Scott Wilson while this was being announced has me posting on this thread. We are so LOST.
While sitting next to Scott I did ask him if anybody has gotten back with him on the cost for the Pottsberg Creek dredge which has a $250,000 design commitment with FIND ( Florida Inland Navigation District) The answer was NO. In fact he doesn't even know the name of the company that is doing the design work. We are so LOST.
So who is on the DIA Downtown Experience subcommittee? You wouldn't have a clue because there wasn't an agenda. This meeting did have a guest appearance by DIA Board member Oliver Barakat and I only know that because he did say before participating in a discussion "Thanks for inviting me. This is my first time at this subcommittee." Oliver asks some really good questions.
The format of the meeting is like watching home movies from a slide show. One Spark was a huge success with ove 500,000 people participating. People were directed to participate at any time with Q&A's.
During Public comment and I shared this with Scott on my speaker card was a request that the DIA at the next Board meeting sponsor a resolution of support for a Boat Ramp Master Plan that is being advanced by Jacksonville Waterways Commission member Scott Shine and he is trying to get it included in the 2013 FIND application package. Chair Tony Allegretti asked for the last plan that was done in 2002 and Scott Wilson volunteered to get it to everyone and has done that. This is a positive benefit that the DIA can get behind and support.
Jack Shad was in attendance and there is some positive movement on bike parking at metered parking spots. lots of little issues but that is also moving in a positive direction.
Another observation and concern that I had and shared during Public Comment was Shipyards III and the concern of the vacant Public Floating dock. Jax Pack hope your paying attention to this one. I asked if I or anyone else wanted to pull up to this Public floating dock and wanted to have a picnic or read a book could I and the answer is NO!!! Tides look good next week. If there are any FBI RICO interns and looking for extra credit give me a call. This also reminds me of the Jim Love, Kevin Kuzel Berkman Floating dock compromise that was misrepresented by OGC to the Jacksonville Waterways Commission during the 2013 FIND grant application process. Pick and choose the winners and losers.
Another interesting update should be the private, secret meeting to discuss Insurance. We will be told what has been decided.
A new Authority
Embrace It
Or
It will Embrace us
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Noone,
Please pardon my inability to decipher exactly what you are stating.
Could you please elaborate and help me understand your stanzas?
Spence- what is your favorite stanza?
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^ Agreed. Sounds like the Waterways Commission have driven you mad.
- What is the Palms Fish Camp corruption?
- Are we missing out on money from FIND?
- What is the story on six artificial reefs? What is the benefit?
ICP- Yes we are missing out on FIND money.
Palms Fish Camp - We should all find out who was the OGC attorney that wrote up this deal to start. But it's a restaurant next to a FIND project and the owner never even opened the door and what is it now 8 years later and the city shut him down and is now counter suing for a million bucks. What a joke. Do you remember the original Shipyards and the Grand Jury Investigation? that was $36,500,000 of taxpayer money.
The 6 Permitted Artificial Reefs in the River south of the Fuller Warren is an immediate Huge benefit that can happen now. It was brought back to life as a result of a Jacksonville Waterway Commission meeting when during Public Comment Capt. Vic Tison and Capt. Roger Bump both with the RFA Recreational Fishing Alliance spoke about snapper closures offshore.
This resulted in a JWC Artificial Reef Subcommittee that was chaired by Scott Shine. During one of these meetings former COJ biologist and not sure of his exact title or Dept. Dana Morton (Super guy)made everyone aware of this reef option in the river. It was also disclosed at this time that there was legislation for this 2009-442.
Lori Boyer in my opinion is a champion of this and let's hope that the momentum continues on this positive benefit and will continue in joining Mayor Brown in making Downtown a Destination and not a pass through. FDOT is another partner.
ICP- Do you fish? The benefit is that you are creating fish habitat in 200'X200 location and I need to check on that number. ICP, rumor has it that each reef will have a former Jacksonville city council chair.
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There is an open RFI for Shipyards/Landmar #AD-0547-13 and it closes on May30, 2013. 16 days. What a joke? Has this been reported on TV. In the paper, on any news station? Does anyone no anyone who is going to submit anything?
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JCCI- JAX VISION 2025 just 5 hours out.
Can the city of the great LOST FIND FIND?
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Ricker, Super pics. The top pick clearly shows you that it was pre demo of the lush vegetation entering Hogans Creek that was never before Waterways and was observed with JWC member Gary Anderson during one of our many clean ups.
Jax Pack meeting less then 5 hours out at Chamblen's. 7 more days on the RFI for Shipyards III. I've given up on asking you know who about you know what. Anybody, when is the next DIA noticed anything?
Will be making a Memorial Day paddle in our DIA zone.
Special shout out to any FBI RICO interns who aren't sitting in their comfy chairs.
It will be a bold, urban core, tactical kayak paddle that will make some NOISE in showing a multi county conspiracy to defraud the people of this country from their opportunity to engage in economic freedom. If you have a fishing license that is a plus because we will be fishing under the brand new No Fishing signs that was never before Waterways.
I am Downtown and why you aren't.
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The Nov.2, 2011 Jacksonville Waterways FIND subcommittee meeting on canoe and kayak launches was sparsley attended. Started at 10 and I'll just go right from the list of current submitted projects for the upcoming Nov. 9, Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting at 9:30 in council chambers.
The Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier is not on the list. WHERE IS The ADMINISTRATION? SHIPYARDS III
1. Zoo Dock construction
2.Mayport Docks
3.Ft. George Inlet
4.Harborview Dredging
5.Sisters ICW dock Dredging
6.Reed Island
7.Charles Reese BR-Dock
8.Zoo Pkwy. Property
9.Atlantic Marine canoe launch
10.Exchange Island Dock
11. Continuation of Blue Cypress boardwalk
12.lighting at BR
6 days out on the RFI on Shipyards III. Should the Public Floating Dock be outside of this RFI? YES!
Pottsberg Creek dredge is on the FIND list. Shazam!
If you think for one second that we are getting more access and economic freedom to our Great St. Johns River our American Heritage River a FEDERAL Initiative in our new DIA restricted zone you are making one BOLD statement. Pick and choose the winners and losers.
I am Downtown and why you aren't.
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Have you all just given up on Bay St. Pier Park?
Downtown Experience subcommittee meeting of the DIA today 4pm. 1st floor city hall.
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The 6/7/13 Downtown Experience subcommittee meeting of the DIA had an agenda. On the committee Tony Allegretti- Chair, Also present and committee member Mike Saylor. Committee member Don Harris was a No Show. Guest appearance by DIA Board member Melody Bishop.
On the agenda
Riverwalk Project- Vanessa Harper
Park Depot Project-Kathy Stark
Risk Managementand Special Event Permitting- Twane Duckworth
Tony Allegretti made it a Fun meeting from start to finish and if the agenda wasn't enough he also brought his kids. They were great and they have to be so proud of their Dad.
The Riverwalk Project by Vanessa Harper was a participant in One Spark and had an engaging video. I was able to ask a question and a concern. In the video I mentioned that the RAM dock is only opened when RAM is open. Also have they reached out to new Duval County school superintendent Vitti and they have an appt coming up. Do wish them well. Let's all make Downtown a Destination and not a pass through.
The Park Depot Project by Kathy Stark had help with Atlantic Beach Commissioner and Executive Director of the Timucuan Trail Parks Foundation Maria Marks. They are looking for a Downtown location.
Risk Management and Special Event Permitting by Twane Duckworth was short and is a HUGE news story in how everyone will be participating going forward in our DIA zone. Very good information and everyone will need to follow this closely.
Not on the agenda but allowed by the chair was a request by Mike Langton to use $1,000,000 of the $9,000,000 for a subsidy on retail rent.
During Public comment I shared the Jim Love, Kevin Kuzel, Berkman Floating dock compromise misrepresented by OGC during the 2013 FIND grant application process. This is our ad valorem property taxes. Not Good.
Also mentioned the benefit of 2009-442 the Artificial Reef Trust Fund.
Shared a concern about the floating dock at Shipyards III
Meeting was just over an hour.
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Noone, first let me commend your persistence! When I first started reading this thread I was like "wow, 27 pages thats a talked about topic" then going back to Page 1 I saw it was started almost 3 years ago. I made it through first 3 pages full of great ideas, then just ran out of time. Second, thank you for making me Google what "American Heritage River, a Federal Initiative" was because I think you put it in all your posts. If you are ever in need of a job, please contact me, because drive and determination is very rare.
Now, bringing it to today ... Why has it taken almost 3 years and still trying to get them to separate the pier? Is there a reason city is dragging feet or did key people get rotated out in an election? I for one cannot wait for something, right about now anything, to be done on the old Shipyards property. Could you perhaps give just a paragraph to bring myself (and maybe others joining in lately) up to speed on what the past 3 years has done and what you hope the people of Jax to do? Primarily I am confused as to is it still trying to be a fishing pier or is it something with kayak piers going? Thanks ahead of time for clearing up a confused individual.
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JB, didn't forget about you. How would you like to kayak Downtown? I'm serious. Waterways meeting in 2 1/2 hours. The Public Trust just destroyed. Pick and choose the winners and losers. Will be donating to 2009-442 a TRUST fund.
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Are you kidding, I would jump at the chance to do so! However, I am out of town because job keeps me in NYC typically Mon - Wed/Thur. But please continue to post upcoming stuff because if I am in Florida, I will be there!
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Governor Scott, Please help.
Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting just 3 1/2 hours out. We are so LOST. Will there be a FIND update? The total statewide crushing of the PUBLIC TRUST.
Paul Astleford is a hero.
Has anyone seen the new Waterways signage Downtown? DIA meetings later today. Anyone going?
Pick and choose the winners and losers.
SHIPYARDS III
Does anybody care?
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2013-669 in Rules today and just 30 minutes out. Have an email into my elected Dist.4 representative to attach an amendment that coul have the 680' Downtown Public Pier separate from the 40 plus Shipyards/Landmar property. Councilman Redman is on Rules. This is in his District. Don Redman is also the chair of Waterways.
Councilwoman Boyer a member of Waterways pointed out cherry picked pieces of legislation at the last 10/8/13 Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting.
The total crushing of the Public Trust.
Will a motion be advanced at Rules?
Has anyone seen the new Waterways signage that was never before Waterways?
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The Public Trust just crushed because it's true.
2013-669 Deferred
2013-694 an amendment
So many examples.
MJ'ers remember that meeting with the 20 city council comfy chairs taken up as an emergency and no Public Comment. That was positive.
Palms Fish Camp a million bucks and you never even open the door.
So many more examples.
And let's not forget Springfield and all the positive demolitions.
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Can this still happen?
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Just found out about the Super Duper Secret 2014 FIND subcommittee meeting of the Jacksonville Waterways Commission that is scheduled for 1/14/14 at 9:30 am in Conf. Room A at city hall. Full meeting of the Jacksonville Waterways Commission is the next day at 9am in city council chambers.
The 2013 FIND grant application process was awesome. This is our property tax money.
Shipyards III and the Historic Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier can be added to the list. It's just a list. The pier wasn't on the list last year. We have all given up on asking you know who about supporting this. Will it be added to the 2014 FIND grant application list?
At a recent DIA Board meeting Board member Mike Saylor pointed out that this new DIA will have total control of over 3 miles of Riverfront. The DIA boundary is from The Fuller Warren Bridge to the Mathews Bridge.
Are we as a community getting more Public Access and economic opportunity to our St. Johns River our American Heritage River a FEDERAL Initiative in our new highly restricted DIA zone? I'd say NO!
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I just came back from doing a job in Tampa. Having seen a little of the what to do with the St Pete peir issue I'm thinking it may be more of a liability than positive. The whole discussion sounded like a "courthouse" like dollars design expenditure wrapped up in a "Jacksonville Landing" like discussion on what to do with the old peir. Which resulted in nobody being happy. Except maybe the ones that blocked the vote on rebuilding.
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Is the Public Pier now a NEGATIVE option?
Super Duper Secret FIND meeting one day out.
Governor Scott- Please help. let's get to work- Just not in Jacksonville.
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Super Duper Secret FIND meeting today. 3 hours out. 9:30 am 4th floor city hall Conf. Room A. Open to the Public. OUR property tax money. I'll mention again the Historic Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier. 2010-604
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The 2/13/13 meeting of the Jacksonville Waterways Commission was a marathon meeting of epoch proportions that had sparks flying everywhere in persuing FIND. Most participants were hoping for one. For a process that involves our ad valorem property taxes that we all participate in you have to just be in shock that nobody shows up for this. We are LOST.
There was a special meeting of the Jacksonville Waterways Commission 1/28/13 to compile a list for the 2013 FIND grant application cycle that will be approved by the administration and city council. So going from the minutes in attendance Council member Jim Love (Chair), Lori Boyer (Vice Chair), John Crescimbeni; Commissioners Gary Anderson, Lane Burnett, Ed Fleming, John Godfrey, Ray Pringle, Scott Shine, Stephen Swann; State Representative Lake Ray, and Commissioners Ralph Hodges and Penny Thompson were excused;Capt. Jim Suber; Paige Johnston OGC; Kelley Boree, Director, Parks and Recreation Dept; Tera Meeks, Chief, Waterfront Management Programming; Gary Kresel, Jody McDaniel, Planning& Development Dept; James Richardson, Environmental Protection Board; Connie Benham; Larry Solomon, CPAC #5; Attorney Kristina Nelson; Attorney Tom Ingram; John Nooney, Recreational Fishing Alliance;David Hahn, Public Works Dept; Matt Brockelman; Joe Wilhelm, Financial News & Dailey Record; Marilyn Allen, Legislative Assistant; John J. Jackson, Council Research Division.
So the 2/13/13 full meeting of the Jacksonville Waterways Commission started at 8am and went right to the agenda and saved the FIND list for later.
Two pieces of legislation. 2013-51 $100,000 for an artificial reef. No discussion. Passed 9-0
2013-105 A resolution from the Administration and it was deferred.
Public comment was also quick and I presented a check on behalf of the Recreational Fishing Alliance to 2009 -442 the artificial reef trust fund. Once the FIND work is done lets not forget that there are 6 artificial reefs that can move forward in the river south of the Fuller Warren. I also shared with Waterways that a Potential Funding source should be the open law suit with Palms Fish Camp that is next to a FIND project. Cha Ching!
The FIND project list that was started at the 1/28/13 meeting was continued from the beginning. This was over a 5 hour meeting.
Again, I have to give props to councilman Love for a very well run meeting that allowed everyone the opportunity to participate and not just during the Public comment period. And this was for everyone during the FIND grant application process. No complaints here.
I just want to share with you my concerns and it goes back to the 1/28/13 meeting and in my opinion is the misrepresentation by OGC on the Jim Love, Kevin Kuzel kayak floating dock compromise NEXT to the Shipyards pier. Kristina Nelson who is no longer with OGC Office of General Council was now being paid to be at this meeting and render an opinion on Shipyards. There is CONTAMINATION at the Shipyards. The Love compromise has nothing to do with Shipyards.
So now at the 2/13/13 meeting we are going over the projects again and the Love,Kuzel floating dock compromise comes up again and there is now another round of excellent discussion and Paige Johnston with OGC is now fielding the questions. Catherine St. Is now listed between Shipyards and Berkman. I never noticed it until it was pointed out at the meeting. Also and this is funny. I think so. Isn't this what's going on at the Park View (contamination) So we originally have Shipyards, give the guys $36,500,000 and tell them to go for it. Was there contamination then? There out and we bring in Landmar and they put in the bulkhead. 1000's of feet of Bulkhead. Did they stir up any contamination?
We are talking about a 20 maybe 30' floating dock NEXT to Shipyards. The Love, Kuzel Compromise is brilliant. Council members Boyer and Crescimbeni asked some great questions and councilwoman Boyer is now checking in to see if this is indeed a waterfront Public Access street end and wants to know. Ben Warner, DIA, Mayor Brown, People of Jacksonville, cross your fingers.
This is just a sampling of the dialogue and discussion that was occurring. I also mentioned Palmer Terrace Park Dist. 4 that needs a Mayor Brown Kayak logo. Dave Roman and Kelley Boree were not at the meeting. But Don Redman supports the kayak logo at Palmer Terrace Park. Just need to make it happen.
Tom Ingram was there and I hope he shares some of the actions that were taken. There is a lot more. County Dock?
So in the meantime who wants to put in at Palmer Terrace Park that doesn't have a Mayor Brown kayak logo and we'll take it over and fish under the brand new No Fishing signs that was never before Waterways.
I am Downtown and why you aren't
Still looking for the LOST FIND thread. Can the Historic Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier ( Bay St. Pier Park ) still happen?
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Wanted to bump this.
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Is this the cool announcement for Shipyards III?
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it would meet the criteria
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Does anybody care?
1st on the agenda was Presentation on St. Johns River Innitiatives- Vince Seibold, Chief, Environmental Quality Division was let go yesterday. Gone. SOL. Bye-Bye. So wrong. For sharing a concern in a Public meeting when asked a question.
FIND update on 2012 grants
Pottsburg Creek dredge $250,000. Design started. Somebody ask about this project.
Will have more later. Just one person for Public Comment.
Our St. johns River our American Heritage River a Federal Initiative in our newly created DIA zone. I'm scared to death.
Can you tell us more about this?
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Does anybody care?
Palms Fish Camp- How do you sign up for this stuff?
Vince Seibold - Chief, Environmental Quality Division fired for sharing a concern in a Public meeting.
How many votes did the USS Adams get at One Spark?
Shipyards III
The Jim Love, Kevin Kuzel Berkman floating dock compromise misrepresented by OGC during the 2013 FIND grant application process.
Does anybody want to write a check to 2009-442? The Artificial Reef Trust Fund.
Ben - JCCI - We need to kayak Downtown before 2025.
Going from the minutes of the March, 13, 2013 Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting.
In attendance: at the Feb. 13, 2013 meeting. Council members Jim Love (Chair), Lori Boyer (Vice Chair), John Crescimbeni, Commissioners Gary Anderson, Ed Fleming, John Godfrey, Ralph Hodges, Scott Shine, Stephen Swann, Penny Thompson; Commissioners Lane Burnett, Ray Pringle, State representative Lake Ray were excused. Paige Johnston,OGC; Dr. White, Dr. Pinto, JU; Capt. Jim Suber, Waterways Coordinator; Marilyn Allen, Legislative Assistant; Tera Meeks, Chief, Waterfront Management Programming; Gary Kresel, Jody McDaniel, Planning& Development Dept. James Richardson, Environmental Protection Board; Geoffrey Sample, SJRWMD, Lisa Rinaman, St. Johns Riverkeeper; David Hahn, Public Works Dept. Atty. Tom Ingram;Larry Salomon, NW CPAC; Tracy Arpen, Sandy Arpen, Mandarin Museum & Historical Society; Gabriele Dempsey, Mandarin Museum & Historical Society; Karen Droege; John Pittman; John Nooney, Recreational Fishing Alliance; Bill Parker;Denise Highes, Jacksonville Reef Research Team; Jeff Edawards; Kevin Kuzel, ECA (Love), John J. Jackson, Council Research Division.
So on the agenda
Two pieces of legislation 2013-106, and 2013-138
III - Florida Boater Improvement Fund Expenses - Commissioner Scott Shine
IV- St. Johns River status report Water quality & Manatee- Dr. White and Dr. Pinto, JU
V- St. John River Issue update- Lisa Rinaman, St. Johns Riverkeeper
VI- Riverwalk Project- Vanessa K. Harper,
VII-OLd & new business
VIII- Public Comment
When I first heard of the Riverwalk Project my initial thought was a presentation that past Waterways Commission members had on Shipyards and Landmar and it was going to be on the upcoming North and Southbank Riverwalk improvements but instead it was a One Spark presentation. it was nice that they were on the agenda. How many votes did the USS Adams get?
made another donation to 2009-442.
The Commissioners of FIND we're in Flagler county and it will and should be a statewide joke that after 5 years and I still don't have one single sponsor to take back to the commissioners of FIND for a pocket park/Pocket Pier. The total crushing of the Public Trust. Pick and choose the winners and losers.
Sheclown, I'm guessing that you are talking about the wrongful termination of Vince Seibold? It was a shocker and It was at the Waterways meeting that we became aware. The guy is on the agenda. So there was a WOW! factor in the sparse group. Jim Love is the Chair and you have to realize that there are just two more Waterway meetings and then new council leadership along with new council assignments. As I recall Vince was never mentioned.
So in that year April 2013- April -2014 a lot may have happened in the Springfield hood?
Hope this helps.
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Does anybody care?
13 days ago was the April 10, 2013 Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting.
So going from the minutes. At the March, 13, 2013 in attendance Council member Jim Love (Chair), Lori Boyer (Vice Chair), John Crescimbeni; Commissioners Gary Anderson, Ed Fleming, John Godfrey, Ralph Hodges, Ray Pringle, Scott Shine, Stephen Swann, Penny Thompson; Commissioner Lane Burnett, and state Rep Lake Ray were excused. Paige Johnston, OGC; Dr. White, JU; Capt. Jim Suber, Waterways Coordinator; Tera Meeks, Chief Waterfront Management Programming; James Richardson, Environmental Protection Board; Vince Seibold, Chief, Water Quality Division; Capt. mike Getchell, Jacksonville Marine Transportation Exchange; Lisa Rinaman, St. johns Riverkeeper; Geoffrey Sample, SJRWMD; Radha Pyati, UNF; Lt. Commander Robert Butts, USCG; Mike Hollingsworth, United States Army Corps of Engineers; Marilyn Allen, Legislative Asst. John J. Jackson, City Council Research Division
So to the agenda
I- Approval of minutes.
II- Presentation of St. johns River Innitiatives- Vince Seibold, Chief, Environmental Quality Division- FIRED the day before.
III- St. Johns River Status Report
Water Quality & Manatee - Dr. White, Dr. Pinto, JU
IV- St. Johns River Issue Update- Lisa Rinaman, St. Johns Riverkeeper
V- Old Business, New Business
VI - Public Comment
During Public Comment made another donation to 2009-442. The Artificial Reef Trust Fund. 6 permitted reefs south of the Fuller Warren Bridge.
Mentioned the Jim Love, Kevin Kuzel Berkman Floating dock compromise Shipyards III that was misrepresented by OGC during the 2013 FIND grant application process.
I've given up on asking you know who about you know what.
Palms Fish Camp- Corruption
Seriously looking for any FBI guys or gals interested in a RICO paddle Downtown. Bonus if you have your fishing license. We'll take it under the brand new No Fishing signs that was never before Waterways.
Don Redman, Scott, Dave did we get any votes or honorable mentions for Palmer Terrace Park? How about a kayak logo at Sydney Gefen Park? Berkman Floating dock next to Shipyards?
Ben- JCCI- We need to kayak Downtown before 2025.
Sheclown, This thread had Vince on the agenda. Over the years the Department heads would be at all the meetings and not hiding up in offices watching on TV and then running down for crisis control. Vince was always there. The SJRWMD guy is always there even though he is not on the agenda.
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The November 14, 2012 Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting will soon have Tony Allegretti who has been asked to have a presentation for the next DIA Board meeting on the branding for our city will have playing softly in the background the song "You are my SUNSHINE, My only SUNSHINE" We are so Lost and need to FIND FIND in the Sunshine in Jacksonville.
The total crushing of the Public Trust continues to happen in this community.
What we all have to remember is FIND is good. Jacksonville is LOST.
Going from the Oct. 10, 2012 minutes in attendance: Councilmembers Jim Love ( Chair), Lori Boyer (Vice Chair), John Crescimbeni; Commissioners Gary Anderson, Lane Burnett, Ed Fleming, John Godfrey, Ralph Hodges, Raymond Pringle, Scott Shine, Stephen Swann, Penny Thompson; State Representative Lake Ray was excused; OGC Kristina Nelson (Who announced that it was her last meeting, Hey Greg Radlinski-Want to come back?), Dr Quinton White, Dr Gerry Pinto, JU, Capt. Jim Suber Waterways Coordinator,Jessica Stephens, Legislative Assistant, Dave Roman, Mayor's Office; Vince Seibold, Chief, Environmental Quality Division; Geoff Sample, SJRWMD, Capt. Mike Getchell, Jacksonville Marine Transportation Exchange; Craig Van Brocklin, John Nooney, Recreational Fishing Alliance; Ron Littlepage, FTU; Bill Parker, Charles Wingfield; ECA Kevin Kuzel (Love), John J. Jackson, Council Research Division.
One of the highlights on the agenda and a presentation by Janie Thomas, Executive Director, Shrimp Producers Association was the reopening of Oyster and Clam Beds in Duval county.
Another item on the agenda was by Athena T Mann, VP Environmental Services, JEA
Also on the agenda was the St. Johns Riverkeeper. I asked about the letter of support on the Shipyards III pier as we were walking in together so that I can take it to the city council and now our DIA. It's coming.
It was a long meeting and I left at one point to go out and extend my time in the meter because the last time I was Downtown I got a $15 parking ticket. 2012-674 is the parking legislation that may soon prohibit me from doing that. Extending my time.
Anyway I'm getting my Public Comment card prepared and Tom Ingram who was instrumental in last years PUBLIC FIND grant application cycle appears and sits a few seats away. Dave Roman and Tom exit the back briefly and come back and Tom leaves the meeting.
Noticeably absent from the meeting again is Tera Meeks who is the Chief of all our Preservation Park Lands, Kelley Boree who is in charge of our Parks. And Jody McDaniel who is our FIND person. Now mind you the Commissioners of FIND are meeting in Jacksonville in two days. Mind you. Every meeting there is a FIND update on the table for the commissioners and the Public. So at the end of the meeting during Public Comments about 2 1/2 hours later I ask what happened to the FIND update and then all of a sudden OH! HERE IT IS. Was there a PUBLIC meeting like last year on this? Total destruction of the PUBLIC TRUST. This is our ad valorem property tax revenue. Who should be fired for circumventing this process? Governor Scott, Can't wait to hear what you have to say about this. It's not your fault. I have that letter where we talked about the Historic Promised 680 ' Downtown Public Pier Shipyards III.
The FIND project list has 12 projects.
Sisters ICW dock redesign
County Road Kayak Launch
Alamacani dock
Lighting at BR
Harborview Dredging
Half Moon Island
Reed Island
Charles Reese BR dock
Exchange Island Dock
geffen Riverwalk kayak launch and piling removal
San Marco Lake kayak access point and parking plan
Continuation of Blue Cypress boardwalk
After the meeting the council members that I talked with as well as some of the Jacksonville Waterways Commission members were totally clueless to this list. HOW WRONG!
I went to the Board meeting of our new DIA and showed them the secret list. This is not good.
Yesterday, I went to the meeting of the Commissioner of the Florida Inland Navigation District and showed them our secret list. The problem is not the commissioners of FIND.
I can't wait for the next Board meeting of our DIA and the branding for our city.
Visit Jacksonville- If you can FIND us.
FLORIDA- The SUNSHINE state. Yeah Right! Jacksonville didn't get the memo.
We are so LOST.
Going from the November 14, 2012 Jacksonville Commission meeting minutes in attendance: Council members Jim Love (Chair), Lori Boyer(Vice Chair), John Crescimbeni; Commissioners Gary Anderson, Ed Fleming, John Godfrey,Ralph Hodges, Ray Pringle, State Representative Lake Ray, Scott Shine, Stephen Swann, Penny Thompson; Lane Burnett was excused; OGC Kristina Nelson, Paige Johnston; Dr. White,Dr. Pinto, JU; Capt Jim Suber Waterways Coordinator; Jessica Stephens, Legislative Assistant; SJRK Lisa Rinaman; Dave Roman, Mayor's office; Vince Seibold, Division Chief, Environmental Quality Division Neighborhoods Dept; John Flowe, Environmental Quality Division, Janie Thompson, Executive Director, ShrimpProducers Association;James Richardson, Environmental Protection; Capt Mike Getchell, Jacksonville Marine Transportation Exchange; Capt. Roger Bump, John Nooney, Recreational Fishing Alliance; Bill Parker, Geoff Sample, SJRWMD; Attorney, Tom Ingram; Joe Wilhelm, Daily Record; John J. Jackson, Council Research Division.
First on the agenda was
City of Atlantic Beach- ICW Preserves Master Plan by Rick Carper, Atlantic Beach Public works.
Second was
Update on FIND Operations and Outlook by Mark Crosley, Asst. Executive Director, Florida Inland Navigation District.
Third was
FIND Subcommittee Update by Commissioner Gary Anderson
Fourth was
St. Johns River Status Report Water Quality and Manatee by Dr. White, Dr. Pinto, with JU
Fith was
St. Johns River Issue Update by Lisa Rinaman, St. Johns Riverkeeper
Still waiting on a letter of support from the Administration RK on the Historic Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier (Shipyards III).
Anyway, Here is the Secret Find list for the 2013 FIND Grant application cycle. Proposed list and Prioritized list.
Let's start with the above secret list. Check out the numbers
FIND Proposed Project List 2013
Project. Total Cost Estimate
Sisters ICW dock redesign $100,000
County Road Kayak Launch. $50,000
Alamacani Dock. $633,810
Lighting at BR. $244,200
Harborview Dredging. $200,000
Half Moon Island. $700,000
Reed Island. $100,000
Charles Reese Boat Ramp and Dock. $75,000
Exchange Island Dock. $110,000
Geffen Riverwalk. $90,000
San Marco Lake. $40,000
Continuation of Blue Cypress Boardwalk. $75,000
Now the Secret FIND Prioritized Project List 2013 which didn't have a noticed meeting.
Exchange Island Dock. $120,000
Sisters ICW dock redesign. $400,000
Ortega Channel Markings. $180,000
County Road Kayak Launch. $100,000
Geffen Riverwalk. $40,000
Northshore kayak launch w/ADA access. $100,000
Lighting at 4 Boat Ramps. $300,000
Reed Island. $120,000
Harborview Dredging. $300,000
Continuation of Blue Cypress Boardwalk. $100,000
Atlantic Beach. 2 observation towers. $213,000
Atlantic Beach design and permitting a walking path. $160,000
Because of 2012-402 the entire Jacksonville city council will have an opportunity to offer input on this list.
Another meeting has yet to be announced. Scott Shine and Lane Burnett were not at the last meeting that was posted Wend. Afternoon before the Thanksgiving break and took place that Monday morning at 9:30 am
This is our ad valorem property tax revenue. So much more from this meeting.
Two days out from the possible passage by our 19 members of the Jacksonville city council on Resolution 2015-38 and our 2015 FIND (Florida Inland Navigation District) projects.
Does anyone else feel sorry for the Baltimore guys 2014-412?
Will the new yet to be opened floating docks on the Southbank just be given to one vendor with a 10 year no compete clause? 2014-190
New docking Rules and Penalties 2014-305. New Rules for Uber and Lyft 2014-665
Unity Plaza- It's not just a retention pond.
Visit Jacksonville!
2015-3
Vince Seibold- Environmental Ethics
The Real Florida!
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Should 2014-560 Our new CRA/DIA be sent to Waterways on 2/11/15 Given the Lori Boyer 2/3/15 Waterways amendment given at the Finance committee meeting?
Should 2014-560 be sent to Waterways on 2/11/15 Given that Aundra Wallace the CEO of the DIA is supposed to be there?
Should 2014-560 be sent to Waterways on 2/11/15 Given that the Water taxi fraud is on the agenda and was never before the DIA Board?
Should 2014-560 be sent to Waterways on 2/11/15 Given the legislative maneuvering of 2014-305 NEW DOCKING RULES and PENALTIES and the non vote by the DIA Board? Just ask Aundra Craig Gibbs about that one. You can't make this stuff up.
Should 2014-560 be sent to Waterways so that the St. Johns Riverkeeper, Lisa Rinaman can offer an amendment on commercial watercraft access to all these existing and NEW docks, piers, kayak launches in this according to a CRA consultant 4.8 mile rivers edge zone from the Fuller Warren Bridge to the Mathews Bridge?
Should 2014-560 be sent to Waterways on 2/11/15 to restore the PUBLIC TRUST for the citizens of Florida that want to promote, celebrate and access our St. Johns River an American Heritage River a FEDERAL Initiative in our new 2014-560 CRA/DIA zone?
We all want to say.
Visit Jacksonville!
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We have all given up asking you know who about you know what.
What will the DIA say about the Historic Promised 680' Public Pier?
Opened for all? Controled by One.
3/6/15 SPECIAL DIA BOARD MEETING on SHIPYARDS III and a NATIONAL DESIGNATION Presentation in less than an hour at 9am 1st floor city hall. open to the Public
A New Authority
Embrace It
Or
It will Embrace Us
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Does anybody care?
13 days ago was the April 10, 2013 Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting.
So going from the minutes. At the March, 13, 2013 in attendance Council member Jim Love (Chair), Lori Boyer (Vice Chair), John Crescimbeni; Commissioners Gary Anderson, Ed Fleming, John Godfrey, Ralph Hodges, Ray Pringle, Scott Shine, Stephen Swann, Penny Thompson; Commissioner Lane Burnett, and state Rep Lake Ray were excused. Paige Johnston, OGC; Dr. White, JU; Capt. Jim Suber, Waterways Coordinator; Tera Meeks, Chief Waterfront Management Programming; James Richardson, Environmental Protection Board; Vince Seibold, Chief, Water Quality Division; Capt. mike Getchell, Jacksonville Marine Transportation Exchange; Lisa Rinaman, St. johns Riverkeeper; Geoffrey Sample, SJRWMD; Radha Pyati, UNF; Lt. Commander Robert Butts, USCG; Mike Hollingsworth, United States Army Corps of Engineers; Marilyn Allen, Legislative Asst. John J. Jackson, City Council Research Division
So to the agenda
I- Approval of minutes.
II- Presentation of St. johns River Innitiatives- Vince Seibold, Chief, Environmental Quality Division- FIRED the day before.
III- St. Johns River Status Report
Water Quality & Manatee - Dr. White, Dr. Pinto, JU
IV- St. Johns River Issue Update- Lisa Rinaman, St. Johns Riverkeeper
V- Old Business, New Business
VI - Public Comment
During Public Comment made another donation to 2009-442. The Artificial Reef Trust Fund. 6 permitted reefs south of the Fuller Warren Bridge.
Mentioned the Jim Love, Kevin Kuzel Berkman Floating dock compromise Shipyards III that was misrepresented by OGC during the 2013 FIND grant application process.
I've given up on asking you know who about you know what.
Palms Fish Camp- Corruption
Seriously looking for any FBI guys or gals interested in a RICO paddle Downtown. Bonus if you have your fishing license. We'll take it under the brand new No Fishing signs that was never before Waterways.
Don Redman, Scott, Dave did we get any votes or honorable mentions for Palmer Terrace Park? How about a kayak logo at Sydney Gefen Park? Berkman Floating dock next to Shipyards?
Ben- JCCI- We need to kayak Downtown before 2025.
Sheclown, This thread had Vince on the agenda. Over the years the Department heads would be at all the meetings and not hiding up in offices watching on TV and then running down for crisis control. Vince was always there. The SJRWMD guy is always there even though he is not on the agenda.
In 3 days 5/10/16 a full Jacksonville city council vote on 2016-305 the Shipyards Pier. Didn't have a clue about this. Did anyone know? And Waterways is the next day at 9:30 in council chambers. WOW!
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May 2016 event does seem to be under the radar so to speak. Significant action??
Interesting to go back to MJ 2011 piece. I replied/regenerated this evening.
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Looks like they are renewing the TITF easement for the submerged lands around the Catherine Street pier. It was likely set to expire. No costs associated with this action.